peter Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 hi folks, I know this thread has come up before but it is still bugging me, vvti tiptronic , when in manuel and going for it if I push the loud pedal too hard the kick down engages and the revs go into the red, not a good thing when you are trying to take out a 2cv! , the only thing I can think of to cure the prob is put a swich on the dash to cut out the kickdown when in tiptronic mode is this poss ? and how would I do it?, or maybe someone out there has a cunning plan. peter black vvti tt tipronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 You have to kickdown to take out a 2CV? Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3any Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 lol thats an impressive 2cv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Wot - you never heard of the 425HP Ferrari 2CV with variable timing head changer and ignition reset transponder? Where you been bro'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by Paul E ignition reset transponder? Ain't that an immobiliser? Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springbok Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Peter, If i understand you correctly you are refering to tiptronic as being manual. I have a vvti tiptronic as well. Its a standard Supra TT otherwise. Firstly I look at this gearbox much like an aircraft, all machines have operational limits. In an aircraft its called a flight envelope. The tiptronic has so much protection on it, you are unlikely to break it. I have locked mine up. and a simple switch off. 10 second gap restart and all systems are go again. Just like a PC.!! What I think you should do is when you are ready to change gear. click the up/down shift on the wheel and take your foot of the throttle,at the same time, just like you would do when changing gear in a manual and dropping the clutch. then reapply the throttle. Often you will apply the throttle realising you could have done it sooner. If you DON'T change gear like this you get very jurky changes where because you are constantly applying full throttle, the engine ignition retards the engine, like normal to allow the gear to change. But it takes longer to pick up the next gear. Then when it does it takes of with a kick in the pants. Retarding the engine via throttle makes for lightening quick gear changes. faster than a manual. And I can shift very fast on a manual box. Hope I have explained enough... kickdown will only happen if you bury the throttle at low speed when you could have gone down two gears on the box at once, it effectively is a autobox override. Corrects your error. Do you get my drift!! You must have been at low speed with a 2CV!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 i thought someone else had this problem as well and solved it by correcting a dodgy speedo/odo conversion. or am i confused? the main point here guys, is that the box shifts into the red, near the rev limiter, which is never going to b a good thing. i dont think this is a normal part of the operation of the tiptronic box. this sounds like the classic auto ecu being confused with a modified speed signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Originally posted by eyefi i thought someone else had this problem as well and solved it by correcting a dodgy speedo/odo conversion. or am i confused? the main point here guys, is that the box shifts into the red, near the rev limiter, which is never going to b a good thing. i dont think this is a normal part of the operation of the tiptronic box. this sounds like the classic auto ecu being confused with a modified speed signal. Sounds about right. Speak to Rob Oldham it was his car or do a search on VVTI that should find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 29, 2002 Author Share Posted December 29, 2002 thanks springbok, but I do not think you are getting my drift, if I am at 80 mph in 4 gear with the box in M and have an attack of the red mist, I drop a gear with the wheel buttons and floor the loud pedel 3rd comes in ok but if my foot is too far down, the box drops to 2 and the engine redlines to the revlimiter, so I think the kick down switch, when the box is in M mode should be disengaged to stop this happening,by the way you are right about lifting your foot when changing gear it works a treat! peter black tipronic tt one cat off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Originally posted by peter thanks springbok, but I do not think you are getting my drift, if I am at 80 mph in 4 gear with the box in M and have an attack of the red mist, I drop a gear with the wheel buttons and floor the loud pedel 3rd comes in ok but if my foot is too far down, the box drops to 2 and the engine redlines to the revlimiter, so I think the kick down switch, when the box is in M mode should be disengaged to stop this happening,by the way you are right about lifting your foot when changing gear it works a treat! peter black tipronic tt one cat off Ther's something up with it then, they shouldn't and don't normally do this. I suspect a faulty speedo conversion may be giving the transmission ecu too low a speed signal, so the ecu thinks the car is doing a lower road speed than it really is and the ecu thinks a further downchange will still keep the engine in its safe RPM limit. I'd find the speedo speed convertor gizmo, remove it, returning wiring to stock, and test it again. Obviously, if the transmission then behave normally, you can then sort the speed signal conversion so ONLY the speedo head itself receives the modded signal. If it still misbehaves it is possible to pull fault codes from the transmission ECU. It needs sorting IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springbok Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Hi Peter, Ok, sorry I did miss the point a bit. It is hard to suggest to you to test it because of the possible consequences, but I think the box is basically a auto with semi manual settings, ie. If it is driven outside its design it overrides you, just like it will do if you try to drop down to many gears when the car is still moving to fast to engage without blowing it to bits. The buttons will not change down and just bleep at you. In the other extreme the car will revert to auto drop down a gear, redline and change gear if you hold on up there. It selects the gear in relation to speed and ratio settings etc,, not you. ie. although in M mode it reverts to auto box, just holds its gears longer a little like sports mode on a ordinary autobox. I suspect if you had not backed off because of the redline it would change up. At worst I guess it will cut the engine out. But who would want to test their car this far!! Not me I admit. Not a solution perhaps. But maybe an explanation. If you really want to know without busting the car I would suggest talking to TDL and get them to look at the mapping on the software. It should show how the tiptronic settings are mapped to the autobox. Thats my view anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springbok Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Peter, I have just read what Chris Wilson has said, and that seems to me quite possible as well. Infact more likely depending who did the speedo changes etc,, Switching back to original first to see how it behaves would be a good idea. I am sure Chris can help you. I am simply a user. Let me know how you get on. I am interested in this as VVTI's are not well known on this board or in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted December 31, 2002 Author Share Posted December 31, 2002 Yes I will let you know when I get to the bottom of it,if Chris Wilson has the diognostic gear I will try him.thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Pete Betts of TRL Performace maybe a good bet too - he is an electronics engineer and makes Speed De-limiters, Fuel Cut Defensers and other electronic gadgets. http://www.trlperformance.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 NOT saying it's right on the Soop, BUT, I read a magazine test on the new-ish MR2 with a tiptronic box, one of the things the tester DISLIKED about it was how:- "You could get the engine to go into the red if you didn't change up with the controls" (I'll try to find the article in a mo') SO, maybe when you have tiptronic you have to control it a bit more like a manual, ie. 'watch' the revs ? ? (I DON'T know) FatS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roboldham Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hi Chaps I too have posted about this problem some time ago. I have now got my VVTi KMH to MPH and delimiter sorted (the VVTi has a host of electronics that are incompatible with the usual convertors). Unfortunately the "kicking down into the red in top" issue is still there - and the only way I can control it is by not totally flooring it in top. Pete Betts sorted the electronics out by making a specially tweaked unit of his - but we have yet to solve the kick down issue! R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.