Project Supracharger

[Shane]

Looking good David, Re your comment about not going back to stock ex. manifold, tbh I didnt have much more room than you have on mine using the smaller M90 and the stock manifolds, it was always going to be tight. Tyres fitted by the way.

[David P]

those chargecoolers are amazing for the money,my mate has one on his 850hp porsche 924...great project...

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I have an active spoiler which I like and want to keep, and a cold air induction feed so there is no room for FMIC pipework, or a SMIC.

This cooler will re-fab a treat and look amazing.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

Looking good David, Re your comment about not going back to stock ex. manifold, tbh I didnt have much more room than you have on mine using the smaller M90 and the stock manifolds, it was always going to be tight. Tyres fitted by the way.

 

Good news re. tyres. Have fun.

 

Here's a video of an uncompleted s/c conversion.

 

This is an M112 and stock headers, with the Autobahn88 I do not have room to fit it just there.

 

Edited November 22, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[barneybrendan]

i cant get the vid to play but i think just by the name you will find madmarf is on here and has a build thread.

[David P]

i cant get the vid to play but i think just by the name you will find madmarf is on here and has a build thread.

 

Cheers for the heads up, will go take a look at the build, don't know how I missed that.

[Guest rich83]

Looks good david i should have made a thread really. Be cool when u get it mounted. With that stock manifold you are very tight for room arnt you. Do you know how your mounting it yet? Charge cooler looks good too, will the bonnet still close? I would def def make provisions for that bypass valve fitted to the charger if you haven't already, if i close mine off at idle it puts a shed load of load on the charger and im guessing it would get pretty hot pretty quickly without air circulating the charger. Especially if the ge's run a idle cont valve so that the throttle is entirely closed totally starving charger of air. I may however be wrong and itd be fine but those chargers arnt especially cheap! This would probably mean like i had you will get the dump valve noise which i hated! I haven't ever seen a supercharged 2j so be cool to see how it runs. If it goes to plan are you going to lower compression and really go for it?? Im aiming for around 25psi later!! Cool project I'll def follow your progress.

[David P]

Hello Rich,

 

Welcome to the club.

 

The exhaust manifold is an Autobahn88, which takes up more space than the stock item, there are some snaps of it in my garage and albums.

It will be tight, but it will go in.

The bonnet will need a bulge of about 1" to clear, but will get to that later.

The configuration will be the same as the Jag installation, but using a 72mm throttle body taken from a Lexus 400 and mounted before the s/c and routing the bypass hose into the charge cooler.

Initially, I will leave the compression stock, the NA-T boys in the U.S. are running up to 14psi on pump fuel, and I will have the water/meth injection controlled by the AEM ECU, I am curious to see how far a stock N/A engine will go.

The transmission I am planning to hybridise should be good for 500ft lbs, so that will be a limiting factor.

 

Using the 6.78" ATI crank pulley, here are the M112 cubic inch per revolution (1835cc) supercharger boost/pulley size figures;

 

4.50” = 11.9 psi (0.82 bar) = dynamic compression 15.8:1 - 664 cfm (18,802 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 10,245rpm

 

4.40" = 12.5 psi (0.86 bar) = dynamic compression 16.2:1 - 679 cfm (19,227 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 10,478rpm

 

4.25" = 13.5 psi (0.93 bar) = dynamic compression 16.8:1 - 703 cfm (19,907 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 10,848rpm

 

4.00” = 15.3 psi (1.05 bar) = dynamic compression 17.9:1 - 747 cfm (21,152 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 11,526rpm

 

3.80” = 16.9 psi (1.16 bar) = dynamic compression 18.8:1 - 786 cfm (22,257 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 12,132rpm

 

 

The engine I have for mock ups is minus a power steering pump, I will need one of these to aline the supercharger bracketry.

 

Does anyone have a dead one going cheap?

 

I have been preparing the distribution knuckle ready to weld to the cooler.

After many hours of grinding, it is now gasket matched, gas flowed and where it can be seen have removed the casting marks from the outside too.

 

Edited February 9, 2012 by David P
Adding detail to boost/volume figures (see edit history)

[David P]

With a gentle 'pruning' of the snout and using 4Runner distributor cap 19101-65040, the charger goes in with a whole 1/2" to spare.

 

 

I am still waiting for the offset pulley to arrive, but have 'wangled' it into a thereabouts position.

There will be more clearance underneath after the s.c has been planed and the alloy heat shield modified.

 

 

There will be room to route the throttle body underneath.

 

The charger is now at the engineers having it's bottom planed, this 1/"2 removal will achieve a face parallel with the exit flange.

This will give a little more room to play with and make mounting simpler.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

I have discovered that the pre 92 4Runner has a different cap, 19101-65010.

 

It will mean remaking the H.T. lead connections, yet this will give another 1/4" - 1/2" clearance.

 

Will order one tomorrow.

 

Edited January 14, 2013 by David P (see edit history)

[Supra Gaz]

I love the ingenuity in this thread. The car is going to sound fantastic at full chat with that SP on. I love the sound of the 4.2 supercharged jags. I look forward to the results

[David P]

Wahay

 

Miguel has come up trumps with a comprehensive PDF document of the workshop manual for both N/A and T.T. automatic transmissions.

 

Thank you very much

 

For the reference of club members who are not Gallikokleidiphobic.

 

Courtesy of Steve and Mawby, this file can be found in link below.

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?234279-A340E-ATM-Unit-Repair

 

Thanks also to AndrewOW, who has offered me his 'dead' power steering pump, as soon as he has found a 'live' one.

With that I can line up the pulley faces and begin to fabricate the supercharger bracketry.

 

 

I have bought both the transmissions required for the A340E/A343E hybrid, but one is in Cosham near Portsmouth and the other at Sheerness.

 

Should there be a club member who will be travelling from either of those places to somewhere/anywhere in a Kettering, Northants, A14, M1 North, A1 North, M6 etc. direction, with space for a gearbox in the boot and the disposition to be of assistance.

I would be pleased to hear from you.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Miguel]

You're very welcome, David. Happy to help in anyway I can. Glad to see you decided to put a build thread up for this; very much looking forward to seeing the results from all the hard work. Now, why isn't it in the project section?

[Steve]

Moved to Project section

[David P]

Here's a snap of the back of the charger in situ, taken after the leg has been removed, and before the bottom has been planed and pruned some more.

The induction flange will be fitted upside down and routed under the charger to the throttle body.

 

 

Looking to see what can be relocated to max the available space.

 

 

The t.b. I have for mock-up is from a manual, and the linkages take up more room than on the auto.

Looking to see what can be pruned.

 

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

Looks to be progressing well David.

[David P]

Hello Matt,

 

It's coming together nicely, thank you.

 

I just keep changing and/or relocating components, 'adjusting' and 'pruning' as I go, gaining a little more space here and there

and it's going in a treat.

 

I only started on this to keep me busy whilst waiting for the HHO kit to arrive, which will at last be here on Monday.

 

My attention will be drawn back to finishing the N/A build, but will keep this project ticking along too.

 

I will be in the front end fiting this kit, so whilst there, my focus will turn towards mounting the two Jag X300 charge cooler pre rads and Bosch 1,200 lph pump.

 

It has been difficult to try and explain how it would all go in, at least the project is now laid out so the finished item is outlined.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[mwilkinson]

Looking forward to seeing both of the projects in their finished states. Will be good to see the end results vs cost etc.

[David P]

The charger is at the engineers, the pre 92 4Runner cap is on it's way, the pulley has disappeared at Chicago airport

and the weather is too cold to be lying around tinkering with pre rad brackets.

 

So I did some more pruning.

 

The charge cooler has been reduced to the core.

 

 

Now the dog can see the rabbit.

 

The distribution knuckle has been dovetailed to allow better lines for re-fab.

 

The off-cuts will get recycled into the build.

 

Edited November 28, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

The 'quick-change' supercharger pulley has arrived.

 

 

Compared to the original, this pulley is offset both ways around, I can choose between a little more, or a lot more.

 

 

One of these configurations will work.

 

This pulley is 3.8", which was the largest diameter quick-change I could find.

 

I think this could be just a little too small for the build?

 

Now I have a 'pattern', I will have a 4.25" made.

 

 

Using the 6.78" ATI crank pulley , here are the M112 cubic inch per revolution (1835cc) supercharger boost/pulley size figures;

 

 

4.50” = 11.9psi (0.82 bar) = dynamic compression 15.8:1 - 664 cfm (18,802 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 10,245rpm

 

4.25" = 13.5psi (0.93 bar) = dynamic compression 16.8:1 - 703 cfm (19,907 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 10,848rpm

 

4.00” = 15.3psi (1.05 bar) = dynamic compression 17.9:1 - 747 cfm (21,152 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 11,526rpm

 

3.80” = 16.9 psi (1.16 bar) = dynamic compression 18.8:1 - 786 cfm (22,257 lpm) @ ambient temp - engine 6,800rpm s/c 12,132rpm

Edited January 20, 2011 by David P (see edit history)

[jagman]

good work!!, once up and running plumb in a vacuum guage between throttle and charger , if you have high vacuum at full chat ,then the throttle is not big enough or pipework or filter restrictive

In a perfect world you would get zero vacuum ,any vacuum present means the charger is out sucking the throttle/intake with the throttle full open , this vacuum uses power from the charger and ultimately crank to be created - less vacuum more power

running a tad of pcv oil thru the charger helps preserve the rotor tips too , but only a tad needed as a mist

The charge cooler remember is mostly for IAT control , you cannot create more oxygen after the charger - what goes in also comes out as its fixed displacement - pre charger is where the benefits of cooling are - more oxygen in ,more oxygen out

[David P]

good work!!, once up and running plumb in a vacuum guage between throttle and charger , if you have high vacuum at full chat ,then the throttle is not big enough or pipework or filter restrictive

In a perfect world you would get zero vacuum ,any vacuum present means the charger is out sucking the throttle/intake with the throttle full open , this vacuum uses power from the charger and ultimately crank to be created - less vacuum more power

running a tad of pcv oil thru the charger helps preserve the rotor tips too , but only a tad needed as a mist

The charge cooler remember is mostly for IAT control , you cannot create more oxygen after the charger - what goes in also comes out as its fixed displacement - pre charger is where the benefits of cooling are - more oxygen in ,more oxygen out

 

Thank you, it is taking shape nicely.

 

The induction pipework and throttle body must be routed underneath the charger, the bore of the N/A item is the same as for the Jag,

and looks to be largest that could be shoe-horned in?

So it looks as though it will have to live with that, but the output will need to be kept within the capabillity of the transmission anyway.

 

The HHO is to be fed before the t.b. so that will be + 4 lpm of damp O2.

Edited November 30, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

 

In the U.S. they are running up to 14psi with the stock N/A compression, yet with the water/meth injection I should be able to run more.

 

The original Jag s.c. pulley is an 8 rib 3", but in this installation it will be a 6 rib and around 4".

 

My thinking is that the belt footprint will be similar, but need to pay attention to avoid slippage.

 

The quick-change pulley I have bought has a 3.8" pulley, but think it prudent to begin with a larger size, keeping the boost down and largest belt footprint, then work down in size monitoring belt traction, detonation and power output.

 

This means that I will need a 4.5", 4.25" and 4" pulley making.

 

I have access to a lathe, but have never used one before and not sure that I'm up to making a good enough job.

 

Is there a club member who is dab-hand at this and could make them for me?

Edited December 1, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Steve]

I guess the 14 psi of boost with the stock n/a compression in the US is on race fuel though...

[David P]

They are running on pump fuel up to 14psi, but state "this is the ragged edge" and recommend 12psi.

 

11.9psi is where I plan to begin with a 4.5" pulley.

[David P]

It would be enlightening to learn the dynamic compression that the single turbos' are running up to, with and/or without w/m injection.

 

I have tried asking by p.ms', but yet to find a member who knows, so ask here in open forum.

 

There is a calculator in the link below.

 

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

 

Here are most of the OE spec figures required in inches, will need different for aftermarket h.g. or camshaft etc.

 

Bore in Inches : 3.3858267716572 (stock 2JZA80)

Stroke in Inches : 3.3858267716572 (stock 2JZA80)

Rod Length in Inches : 4.931102362204725 (stock 2JZA80)

 

Static Compression Ratio : 8.5:1 (stock T.T.)

Inlet Valve Closes ABDC : 52o ABDC (stock T.T.)

Boost Pressure in PSI : ?

 

Target Altitude in Feet : 300

 

Or just let me know the purple figures and I can work it out from there.

 

Thank you

Edited December 1, 2010 by David P (see edit history)