ADD Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Alright guys, it would seem I have a prob. On cold start the car takes literally 10 seconds to actually start, when or finally does There is a ploom of blue smoke and lumpy idle but then after a second it clears. It happens everytime the car is cold On warm start there is no smoke but still a little hesitant to start. There is no smoke on boost or lift off, I'm thinking valve stem seals are knackered. Ryan has had a look at the start map and put sine fuel in and some out but no made a difference. Any thoughts please?? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 I would guess that your prediction of Valve Stem Seals being correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Blue smoke on start up could very well be stem seals, mine were shot but didnt affect starting the car at all and had the blue smoke for a few seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 Blue smoke on start up could very well be stem seals, mine were shot but didnt affect starting the car at all and had the blue smoke for a few seconds That's interesting as I thought when they start to go oil drips into the chambers hense the hesitation when starting. I will do a vid and post it I think. I'm worried it's gonna effect the car when in boost tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) Mine smoked for several months before i changed them and other than the blue smoke it was fine, i had the engine compression and leakdown tested and the results were very good so left the head on and did the seals using the compressed air route Edited November 15, 2010 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Im thinking cos its taking a fair amount of churning to start the blue smoke is fuel, what does it smell like? As for stem seals the amount of oil leaking is tiny, not enough to make it run rough. Takes very little oil to make alot of smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 Im thinking cos its taking a fair amount of churning to start the blue smoke is fuel, what does it smell like? As for stem seals the amount of oil leaking is tiny, not enough to make it run rough. Takes very little oil to make alot of smoke. Ok mate I'll check smells tonight and do a vid. Afr's are strange sometimes on start up they are 17 which is too hight then other times they go down to 10 way too low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 I think the stem seals go due 1 age 2 heat , more power more exhaust valve heat , there go the seals ... Allowing oil into the head will cause carbon build up ( not good) If left ages I would take head off to check/ clean , and replace with viton or such new ones . Then you know all is well . I would guess that the seals go shortly after decat fitment or power upping , mine did quick smart !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 I think the stem seals go due 1 age 2 heat , more power more exhaust valve heat , there go the seals ... Allowing oil into the head will cause carbon build up ( not good) If left ages I would take head off to check/ clean , and replace with viton or such new ones . Then you know all is well . I would guess that the seals go shortly after decat fitment or power upping , mine did quick smart !! Yep, I think mine went shortly after putting on the decats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 If your ECU still uses water temp imput it could be the sensor has gone down, it can have quite an impact on cold start, may explain the erratic cold AFRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 If your ECU still uses water temp imput it could be the sensor has gone down, it can have quite an impact on cold start, may explain the erratic cold AFRs. It's an EMU, how would I know if it uses the water temp I/P sensor?? I'm so gutted about this! There always seems something that happens to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 It's an EMU, how would I know if it uses the water temp I/P sensor?? I'm so gutted about this! There always seems something that happens to me! Ahh! your still using the std ECU with EMU, in that case the std ECU will still have the std water and IAT sensors, i would check on the water first, which is under the top rad hose where it enters the block, its the one with two wires rather than one, IAT is half way along the plenum on the inside, J spec TT. There is also a slim chance that the EMU has lost the injector setting, but if its been checked, it should be OK> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 15, 2010 Author Share Posted November 15, 2010 ok mate i'll check them tomo and make sur all is ok, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Morning all, started the car up yesterday after being left for 3 days, took 10 seconds again and the blue smoke smells allot like fuel and not oil!!! very confused now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Did you wap in a new water temp sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Makes sense to me, turning it over its still going to inject fuel. Sounds a bit like an ignition fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 If its putting in too much fuel when cold would this be the water temp sensor ? i'd understand that if it was hot and doing it but not cold as thats when it should have more fuel ? For what they cost it can't hurt to fit one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Makes sense to me, turning it over its still going to inject fuel. Sounds a bit like an ignition fault if so, is it a case of the spark isnt strong enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 If its putting in too much fuel when cold would this be the water temp sensor ? i'd understand that if it was hot and doing it but not cold as thats when it should have more fuel ? For what they cost it can't hurt to fit one though. The ECU water temp sensor tells the ECU if its a cold start condition, cold start= more injector duty cycle, which is kind of the equivalent of a choke, if the water temp sensor is faulty the ECU sees a cold start signal all the time, and if its not that cold you end up with too much fuel, but in general i think it actually effects hot start more. I am still wondering if there is a problem with the EMU, have you checked this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) The ECU water temp sensor tells the ECU if its a cold start condition, cold start= more injector duty cycle, which is kind of the equivalent of a choke, if the water temp sensor is faulty the ECU sees a cold start signal all the time, and if its not that cold you end up with too much fuel, but in general i think it actually effects hot start more. I am still wondering if there is a problem with the EMU, have you checked this yet? Yep i know that so can the ecu actually overfuel the coldstart when its actually cold ? ADD what does the car run like when its hot ? is it drinking fuel Edited November 17, 2010 by Dnk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 The car is juicy on boost obviously but off boost it's seems pretty economical! I'm dropping it to Ryan fri till next week so he can see what goin in etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 This is now simply a pain in the ars..... no matter how long i leave the car for 30 mins - days it wont start straight away! i dont know whether to get a new ecu or get the stem seals done. When the car does start, for about 5 seconds it sounds like it missfiring but that could be the fact that if the valve stem seal have gone its the oil creating it or if ecu at fault too much or too little fuel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 This is now simply a pain in the ars..... no matter how long i leave the car for 30 mins - days it wont start straight away! i dont know whether to get a new ecu or get the stem seals done. When the car does start, for about 5 seconds it sounds like it missfiring but that could be the fact that if the valve stem seal have gone its the oil creating it or if ecu at fault too much or too little fuel.... Honestly mate the car derserves something better with the spec it has. I would 100% recommend saving up and getting a Syvecs or if thats just too far on the budget at least an Fcon. Find a Fcon Gold ecu and i can make up a loom for it. Might cost you £500 for a fcon gold unit and £140 for a loom and it will be a different car altogether. If you keep leaving it as it is mate you will just loose the love for it. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Cheers for reply Ryan, im gonna have to look into get an new on then mate. Ill be in touch Ad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Almost certainly an ecu limitation and hence unable to map for proper cold start. The smoke is worrying, could be a less than optimal fuelling has resulted in excess bore and ring wear. A properly conducted leakdown may show this, otherwise an engine strip and measure. It does not take long to *ugger rings and pistons with a bad map and excess fuel.... As Ryan says, these gizmos have no place on a high output turbo engine. Stop using it and save for a proper management system, properly fitted and set up, and hope (a lot...). Good luck. Edited February 8, 2011 by Chris Wilson HOPE a lot, not HOP a lot :) (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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