Benefit System Reform......

[imi]

Benefit System being Reformed

 

So what do you all think about the actions that the Govt are taking in order to reform the benefit system - set to kick in 2013 onwards....

 

Should help reduce the queues in the post office.....

[Gaz6002]

I think your full stop key is stuck.

[Abz]

About time, this should have been done years ago!

 

Along with limiting housing benefits to say £250 a week, I don't understand how government agencies are paying out over £1,000 a week in housing benefits for some people. If it is expensive where you are then it is not up to the people who work hard all their life to carry you around while you live in some plush house.

[Paul]

 

Should help reduce the queues in the post office.....

 

What, all those people queing up to send some of their benefit money back 'home', claimig for second wives etc.

[Chris Wilson]

Governments promise and say many things, whether they will see this through remains to be seen. I am watching the current political situation with more interest than I have been able to muster for years. I still think the only hope for the UK is to come out of Europe and for a dictator that I shall regularly brief to take over

[jagman]

Of our 200 odd billion welfare bill, around 55% goes on pensions. then 40-50% of all pensioners claim other benefits also. Housing benefit, council tax benefit, winter fuel payment, free television licenses, free bus passes, etc. This will push up the cost of pensioner benefits, so around pensioners take up ~75-80% of all welfare costs.

 

we are a graying nation so that the pensioner cost is continually increasing at 5-8% per year over the past decade. Which is substantially above gdp growth and inflation.

 

But this doesnt include our healthcare bill which is another 120 odd billion per year. And guess what? The elderly consume the lions share of this also and again its increasing at a rate way above inflation.

 

In comparison job seekers is about 3 billion and housing benefit for the unemployed is going to be another billion or two.

 

However pensioner voting numbers and the fact that they consistently have a high voter turn out means that this section of our society is consistently protected to the detriment of everyone else. And since our politicians cant/wont target this group our attention is turned to those who it is easy to demonize - i.e. the unemployed. And while they are being demonized, because of the voting power of the pensioner demographic the government is increasing its relative spending on them, which in turn is squeezing out spending on everything else.

 

So just who are the reforms aimed at ? and just who already has the majority of the wealth ? and what on earth are the papers reporting?

food for thought,,

[Chris Wilson]

I have a horrible feeling you seriously believe all that you have written Pensioners have paid into the system for many many years, and a lot have lived modestly, well within their means, for their whole lives, through good and some terrible times. You dare to castigate them and support idle, scrounging, workshy, avaricious, rampant consumers who have often, for at least two generations, sponged off the state without shame or thanks? I for one will be happy to see some families get off their fat idle backs and enter the workplace for at least once in their miserable lives, even if it comes with the cost of a few riots and pages of indignant bile from those that have taken, or support those who have taken, the state and the genuine tax payer for mugs for years. All IMHO of course It'll be good to see some of these so called invalids get some proper screening, even out here in the sticks there are plenty who get every handout going under the pretext of too ill or stressed to work, yet they seem fine when they are doing something that appeals to them, starting late in the day, or often between opening and closing times.

[RedM]

Excellent post there, Jagman.

[Abz]

Of our 200 odd billion welfare bill, around 55% goes on pensions. then 40-50% of all pensioners claim other benefits also. Housing benefit, council tax benefit, winter fuel payment, free television licenses, free bus passes, etc. This will push up the cost of pensioner benefits, so around pensioners take up ~75-80% of all welfare costs.

 

we are a graying nation so that the pensioner cost is continually increasing at 5-8% per year over the past decade. Which is substantially above gdp growth and inflation.

 

But this doesnt include our healthcare bill which is another 120 odd billion per year. And guess what? The elderly consume the lions share of this also and again its increasing at a rate way above inflation.

 

In comparison job seekers is about 3 billion and housing benefit for the unemployed is going to be another billion or two.

 

However pensioner voting numbers and the fact that they consistently have a high voter turn out means that this section of our society is consistently protected to the detriment of everyone else. And since our politicians cant/wont target this group our attention is turned to those who it is easy to demonize - i.e. the unemployed. And while they are being demonized, because of the voting power of the pensioner demographic the government is increasing its relative spending on them, which in turn is squeezing out spending on everything else.

 

So just who are the reforms aimed at ? and just who already has the majority of the wealth ? and what on earth are the papers reporting?

food for thought,,

Very good post, some good points too.

 

Though I thought the NI that I pay contributions to my pension pot (If I ever make it to 65).

 

Dying say at 50, means the government gets around £70k over a 30 year working period to help themselves.

[Terminator]

I have to agree with Chris, most pensioners I know have worked for 40 years to 50 years of their lives, contributing to the welfare state as they did so. So I for one don't begrudge them their meagre pensions and what ever other benefits to which they are entitled. We should take care of those who contributed to this society, but who can no longer do so contribute due to age or ill health. One thing is certain most of us will be pensioners one day, some sooner than others, we have no choice. Unlike the lazy bastard who don't want to work but expect the rest of us to work and pay taxes so they can have a live of leisure. I know there are many unemployed who don't want to be and actively seek what ever work they can get. I know of quite a few families who have are on the second generation of member who have never worked. So they have been housed fed and enabled to have kids and the back of the rest of us. It is about time they were forced to get up and get out and do something for what they get given too many have done what ever they can to avoid work. The biggest problem is some of these people are totally unemployable.

 

I would like to see a qualifying period for eligibility for benefits, to stop people coming to this county to claim our benefits. I have no problem if someone from overseas has honestly competed for a job and gained employment here, no job no entry. If the position they came here for is terminated through no fault of there own, any benefit they receive should be determined by the time they have worked in the country on a sliding scale up to a maximum of five years before getting full benefit entitlement.

 

There need to be much tighter control of low level benefits, which can result in much more being lost than the initial calculated cost of the benefit. For example- free parking permits. I know there is considerable abuse of this system. A local resident has child with ADHD for which they get two permits, these are given freely to family and friends so that they don't have to pay parking charges. We were we ask if we wanted to borrow one, FFS.

 

Foreign nationals on benefits, convicted of a crime should be deported, and banned from applying for entry to the country for double the length of their sentence, we have enough criminals of our own we don't need imported versions.

[pistonbroke]

I have to agree with Chris too.

 

I can't imagine the great unwashed rioting though, it'd mean they have to actually do something that doesn't involve sitting down.

[a98pmalcolm]

anything that will give pikie scum less money im game with!!

 

In bedford u just see all these young mums with there chav dads. Proper pond life scum sitting at the cafe's smoking etc...

 

I sound like an old man.... Or just a guy that wants to see my taxs go to things that matter!! not scum bags that cant be arsed to work coz they get given so much money!!

[Snooze]

Benefits and taxation need to take into account ASSETS as well as INCOME. I see plenty of people (especially in the retired demographic) sat with £500k+ assets in property still claiming every benefit known to man.

 

The problem has been massively accentuated in the past couple of decades with the ridiculous increase in asset value compared to income levels as the property market went ballistic.

 

Until we tax assets properly, we won't get things under control.

 

 

 

And, as unpopular as it sounds, I think we also need a reduction in the minimum wage. That, coupled with reduction in benefits might actually incentivise people to work and kickstart some industry again?

[jagman]

http://tutor2u.net/economics/presentations/unemploymentcharts/default.html

So where are these huge amount of young chavs not wanting to work?

slide 11

[Tony]

Benefits and taxation need to take into account ASSETS as well as INCOME. I see plenty of people (especially in the retired demographic) sat with £500k+ assets in property still claiming every benefit known to man.

 

The problem has been massively accentuated in the past couple of decades with the ridiculous increase in asset value compared to income levels as the property market went ballistic.

 

Until we tax assets properly, we won't get things under control.

 

 

 

And, as unpopular as it sounds, I think we also need a reduction in the minimum wage. That, coupled with reduction in benefits might actually incentivise people to work and kickstart some industry again?

 

Words fail me?

[Tony]

http://tutor2u.net/economics/presentations/unemploymentcharts/default.html

So where are these huge amount of young chavs not wanting to work?

slide 11

 

Good post

[snake]

Benefits and taxation need to take into account ASSETS as well as INCOME. I see plenty of people (especially in the retired demographic) sat with £500k+ assets in property still claiming every benefit known to man.

 

The problem has been massively accentuated in the past couple of decades with the ridiculous increase in asset value compared to income levels as the property market went ballistic.

 

Until we tax assets properly, we won't get things under control.

 

 

 

And, as unpopular as it sounds, I think we also need a reduction in the minimum wage. That, coupled with reduction in benefits might actually incentivise people to work and kickstart some industry again?

 

wait until you retire i feel you may have a different outlook

[China Man]

Something got to change, not only the policy but peoples thinking. One of my staff ask me today if he could go part time, I ask him why and he said if I go 20 hours I can get housing benefit. I mean WTF? shouldn't he say increas my hours because I could stand on my own 2 feet rather then using my tax money?

 

Benefit should be a life line and a limited period not taken for granted.

[PJ]

http://tutor2u.net/economics/presentations/unemploymentcharts/default.html

So where are these huge amount of young chavs not wanting to work?

slide 11

 

3 year old slides that are skewed as they don't factor in all the masses that have moved off unemployment benefit and on to sickness/disability benefits due to changes in the system...

[Guest wantthatone]

i wonder how many of you on here, have had to rely on the benefit system at some point? through no fault of your own? there is a minority it seems that are indeed needy of this help, however this gets out weighed by " the burbeery chav" scenario! i live in a seaside town, unemployment in high, there are more halfway houses than anywhere else in the uk! bail hostels etc, what with the eastern european sector, it is a grim place, i found myself made redundant a year ago now, i have always worked! i spent a year supporting myself & famoly with savings while i chose to finish a few projects i had on the go, i have now signed upto JSA bot for the 20 years i have been paying into the state, im not entitled to any form of help from this government! if i was an addict it would be different, also did you realise that a EU immigrant can claim full child benefit for each of there children that do not live in this country, & send that money home with out contributing anything into our welfare state

[Terminator]

Regardless of statistics, there are still those, not necessarily young, who don't want to work and have no intention of working because it is more convenient to live off the state. Agreed there are those who are very well off who claim for everything, the main fault of a universal system. As soon as you move to a fairer means tested system you have to pay more to run the system. With the cuts to be imposed in the civil service I can't see funds being available to change the system to target only those in need, so there will continue to be the flaws of a universal system. Example the £43K child benefit farce, where this couples earning £85K combined would still get it, as the system cant be used as it is to join up the thinking. I have only ever claimed one benefit, child benefit, in the early days, when one of us was earning, it made a difference, but as our careers progressed, we did not need it. Did we keep it, you bet.

[Max Headroom]

As someone fast approaching pensionable age, I am going to claim every freaking benefit I can, sod the lot of you, I'm alright Jack!

 

I have been gainfully employed for the past 40 odd years and never crossed my mind to claim any sort of benefit. Yet every day I read of sponging workshy lazy devils sat on their ar*e at home claiming they cannot work for anything less than £40K to keep them in the style they have become accustomed to. I am paying for their lifestyle choice, so I am going to join them

[j_jza80]

I have a horrible feeling you seriously believe all that you have written Pensioners have paid into the system for many many years, and a lot have lived modestly, well within their means, for their whole lives, through good and some terrible times. You dare to castigate them and support idle, scrounging, workshy, avaricious, rampant consumers who have often, for at least two generations, sponged off the state without shame or thanks? I for one will be happy to see some families get off their fat idle backs and enter the workplace for at least once in their miserable lives, even if it comes with the cost of a few riots and pages of indignant bile from those that have taken, or support those who have taken, the state and the genuine tax payer for mugs for years. All IMHO of course It'll be good to see some of these so called invalids get some proper screening, even out here in the sticks there are plenty who get every handout going under the pretext of too ill or stressed to work, yet they seem fine when they are doing something that appeals to them, starting late in the day, or often between opening and closing times.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Am I naive in thinking peoples assets have been gained whilst also paying taxes? The assets these people have gained, whatever the level, have also contributed to the benefit system. At last the government are having to tell the populace the terrible truth, the country has been bled dry. Don't get me wrong, a seemingly unknown percent of the countrie's wealth has been spent recently on recent military action, which, to me, seems to have had no great benefit to our indigenous people, and that figure must be pretty damned high. But that apart, various governments have willingly allowed the benefits and compensation systems to be totally abused to the extent at least two generations of families in some areas have become acceptive of a lifestyle where the work ethic is totally alien to them, and "compo" is just another form of supplementary income. One cannot blame the hard working, home buying, keeping, and maintaining folk, who may choose to pass it on to later generations for a boom in property prices. Property is like a loaf of bread, if you intend to keep a roof over your head, at your own cost and initiative, a move up or down the property ladder doesn't gain or lose you anything much. A move from a house of a certain perceived style and value still costs much the same, and a shift upwards or downwards still has similar real world costs. We, and I include myself, have become used to consumerism on credit with scant regard to the long term risks. RISK is something the modern family seems to wan to shun as soon as their situation changes downwards. The Lloyd's Names were a typical example. Credit has been, and is, too easy to get, and a time has come where, as history has shown, it can be a great and long lasting millstone. I only hope we will one day have a government strong enough to take charge of this situation, I don't see it with the current lot, nor it happening in my lifetime, another world war apart.

[Snooze]

Am I naive in thinking peoples assets have been gained whilst also paying taxes? The assets these people have gained, whatever the level, have also contributed to the benefit system.

 

Chris - the money I have to earn to pay for my £150k mortgage is, indeed taxed through PAYE.

The £100k asset value that I have earned simply by sitting on my fat ass in said house is not. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

Like you say - it's not my fault the property value has gone up, but without any sort of regulation, it's part of the reason that we are ALL screwed. I'd rather my house was still worth £150k and the economy was more stable.