Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 how do we know he's not? delay a "case" presented to him for a few weeks and the person against whom the charge is being bought against can visit and leave in a given time frame.... How do we know the people concerned are war criminals though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 how do we know he's not? delay a "case" presented to him for a few weeks and the person against whom the charge is being bought against can visit and leave in a given time frame.... If there's a chance of the DPP being leaned on by politicians, then maybe that problem needs fixing instead. The right person/people (whoever they are) need to decide whether to pursue an allegation, and those people need to be free from politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 How do we know the people concerned are war criminals though? I imagine if a charge is highlighted, and the magistrate agrees to issue a warrant, the police/relevant authority would carry out full investigation and arrest the individual in question ready for face the charges they have been accused of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 oh.. you're one of "those" people.... in that case i'll break it down for you.... first i need to understand if you know the value of human life, and secondly if you know what a gun is... if britain was in a state of war with say... france, and some french soldier killed YOUR family in their own home for no reason (using either a missle, guns or what ever ..... they posed no threat to him) would you call him a criminal or would you just go with the "oh he's doing his job" and get on with your life? I'm not sure what "One of those" people are, but if you say I am then I believe you If you know the value of a human life, then i'm sure the legal system and insurance services would like you to get in touch, as they've been struggling with it for a while... And if a foreign soldier killed one of my family, I probably wouldn't be happy with the individual, but it would be the individual/country who gave him his orders who i'd lay the blame on. It's not a nice subject at the best of times, but if you really believe that those that keep our country safe are war criminals, do you not think it would be better to live somewhere that is more in keeping with your ideals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 .... follow the process of the Universal law which I support (... and by your replies you don't seem ) and we'll see each other in court More like the battle field;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I imagine if a charge is highlighted, and the magistrate agrees to issue a warrant, the police/relevant authority would carry out full investigation and arrest the individual in question ready for face the charges they have been accused of... Wouldn't they need proof before arresting them though? And wouldn't that proof realistically take as long as the process you're trying to prevent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 more like the battle field;) "allah hu akbar" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Wouldn't they need proof before arresting them though? And wouldn't that proof realistically take as long as the process you're trying to prevent? here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 I'm not sure what "One of those" people are, but if you say I am then I believe you If you know the value of a human life, then i'm sure the legal system and insurance services would like you to get in touch, as they've been struggling with it for a while... And if a foreign soldier killed one of my family, I probably wouldn't be happy with the individual, but it would be the individual/country who gave him his orders who i'd lay the blame on. It's not a nice subject at the best of times, but if you really believe that those that keep our country safe are war criminals, do you not think it would be better to live somewhere that is more in keeping with your ideals? .... i prefer living here - I work my ass off, pay whats due to the tax system which means i contribute to the salary the soldiers take home, the hospital care they get and all the other costs which come with it.... however - that does not mean i have to agree with what they are doing... the whole basis for going to "war" with iraq was based on a lie - which tony and his cronies stuck to... so TONY is a war criminal as the actions of his government lead to deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.... as for the soldiers - if they felt threatened and killed someone in the heat of battle - i don't think that's a war crime (but again, i'm no judge)... it's a "him or me" scenario if the soldiers went out to satisfy their blood lust and kill innocent people - that's a crime - agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction That doesn't answer my question though. In UK law you need reasonable grounds for prosecution before being arrested and tried, the gathering of which could easily take a long time. I'm just trying to understand your point, because at the moment you've failed to prove to me that anything is actually wrong... TONY is a war criminal as the actions of his government lead to deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.... Eh? Can you supply proof of the hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths that Tony's government caused? That's a new one on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 That doesn't answer my question though. In UK law you need reasonable grounds for prosecution before being arrested and tried, the gathering of which could easily take a long time. I'm just trying to understand your point, because at the moment you've failed to prove to me that anything is actually wrong... Eh? Can you supply proof of the hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths that Tony's government caused? That's a new one on me. before a request is made to the magistrate as i've said before - there will have to be considerable evidence to indicate the subject has committed a crime... so you'll have legal people, human rights folks etc compiling evidence and presenting it..... second part of your question: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ http://wikileaks.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 before a request is made to the magistrate as i've said before - there will have to be considerable evidence to indicate the subject has committed a crime... so you'll have legal people, human rights folks etc compiling evidence and presenting it..... ...which is my point. It'll take a long time to arrange all that, in which period the person could have come and gone anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 ...which is my point. It'll take a long time to arrange all that, in which period the person could have come and gone anyway ... which is why evidence is collated well in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 second part of your question: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ http://wikileaks.org/ Ah, statistics from both sides there mate. Not just coalition forces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I think the point he's trying to make is around people who have committed war attrocities (spelling?!) and not your average (one would hope) soldier doing his (or her) duty. Its likely every country (generalist statement) has elements of armed forces that have done some terrible acts, the UK included. I would agree with not adding delays to a process by forcing decisions through policitians, its a sad reflection but proved time and time again that there are often economic/political/corrupt influences on political decision making that often detract from moral 'right and wrong'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Ah, statistics from both sides there mate. Not just coalition forces? .... see that's where the problem is - everything is defined as a "statistic".... these people died as a result of lies told by tony and his cronies... if we had stayed out of iraq, who knows... the result may have been very different (we wouldn't get people blowing 5417 up every single day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 .... see that's where the problem is - everything is defined as a "statistic".... these people died as a result of lies told by tony and his cronies... if we had stayed out of iraq, who knows... the result may have been very different (we wouldn't get people blowing 5417 up every single day) Don't forget the small issue of Saddam invading Kuwait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Don't forget the small issue of Saddam invading Kuwait don't always believe what you see on the news stations..... Saddam accused oil companies in Kuwait of slant drilling. The Iraqi oil fields do not extend beneath Kuwait, so American companies drilled at a shallow angle, from Kuwait to within Iraq, to tap into Iraq's oil field. If you had a gold deposit beneath your property, the gold belongs to you, the property owner. If your neighbor digs a tunnel down from their property, then laterally to a point under yours to reach and extract the your gold, that is theft. Saddam met with April Glaspie, a US Ambassador at the time, to discuss his dispute. Glaspie led Saddam to believe the US would not intervene if Saddam attacked Kuwait, but that was not true. Here is a link for more information: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/april.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 It would be interesting to hear the OPs view on atrocities caused by muslims on muslims, or is that down to the will of allah! Brand everyone a racist for questioning the arguements of the muslim community, and muslim community I mean the fundamentalists. We are all bad for tread down on them yet they come here and do not respect our laws and rights, demanding that their rules apply. You can speak to many muslims who live here and abide by our rules, you do not see the jewish, sikh or buddist communities demanding that we follow their rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 don't always believe what you see on the news stations..... Saddam accused oil companies in Kuwait of slant drilling. The Iraqi oil fields do not extend beneath Kuwait, so American companies drilled at a shallow angle, from Kuwait to within Iraq, to tap into Iraq's oil field. If you had a gold deposit beneath your property, the gold belongs to you, the property owner. If your neighbor digs a tunnel down from their property, then laterally to a point under yours to reach and extract the your gold, that is theft. Saddam met with April Glaspie, a US Ambassador at the time, to discuss his dispute. Glaspie led Saddam to believe the US would not intervene if Saddam attacked Kuwait, but that was not true. Here is a link for more information: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/april.html Strange how no evidence of this slant drilling has ever arisen? Surely Iraq would have made it a priority to prove their claims? IMO our mistake with Iraq is that we didn't remove Saddam in the first place. From what i've read, it would appear that civilian casualties caused by Saddam are greater than all casualties in the following conflicts. However, getting reliable information is so difficult as everything seems to be so biased one way or another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 It would be interesting to hear the OPs view on atrocities caused by muslims on muslims, or is that down to the will of allah! Brand everyone a racist for questioning the arguements of the muslim community, and muslim community I mean the fundamentalists. We are all bad for tread down on them yet they come here and do not respect our laws and rights, demanding that their rules apply. You can speak to many muslims who live here and abide by our rules, you do not see the jewish, sikh or buddist communities demanding that we follow their rules. Where did that come from? I thought the OP was asking about a law to stop war criminals hiding in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Where did that come from? I thought the OP was asking about a law to stop war criminals hiding in the UK? There are most likely laws already on the statute to cover this, and we have enough war criminals here already. I suppose its what direction you are coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanc Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 It would be interesting to hear the OPs view on atrocities caused by muslims on muslims, or is that down to the will of allah! Brand everyone a racist for questioning the arguements of the muslim community, and muslim community I mean the fundamentalists. We are all bad for tread down on them yet they come here and do not respect our laws and rights, demanding that their rules apply. You can speak to many muslims who live here and abide by our rules, you do not see the jewish, sikh or buddist communities demanding that we follow their rules. Was waiting for that to appear and i completely agree, they say they are at war with us so whats good for one. I think the Times is running a story on the extremists asking for their followers to seek out MP's. Our country would be better for everyone, muslims included, if we were shot of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 It would be interesting to hear the OPs view on atrocities caused by muslims on muslims, or is that down to the will of allah! Brand everyone a racist for questioning the arguements of the muslim community, and muslim community I mean the fundamentalists. We are all bad for tread down on them yet they come here and do not respect our laws and rights, demanding that their rules apply. You can speak to many muslims who live here and abide by our rules, you do not see the jewish, sikh or buddist communities demanding that we follow their rules. Sound like you have a chip on your shoulder... Don't mince your words just say it how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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