penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Please sign EDM 108 below to stop changes in Universal Jurisdiction being put in place to allow WAR CRIMINALS escaping prosecution/arrest when entering the UK. http://psc.iparl.com/lobby/51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 This should make an interesting Friday thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 always up for a discussion as long as it's supported by facts my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 This should make an interesting Friday thread. By interesting does one perhaps mean heated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 By interesting does one perhaps mean heated? Mayhaps. I'd quite like to see more information. Googling EDM 108 doesn't come up with much of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 will take a few days for google to catch up on what EDM 108 is... some very basic info: http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=41023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 By interesting does one perhaps mean heated? can't see it getting heated.... btw, can i please have some popcorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 will take a few days for google to catch up on what EDM 108 is... some very basic info: http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=41023 I found that, but it doesn't mean anything to me if I'm brutally honest. It certainly isn't enough for me to cast a vote on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 I found that, but it doesn't mean anything to me if I'm brutally honest. It certainly isn't enough for me to cast a vote on. fair enough, please let me know what questions you have and i'll get you as much info as i can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 fair enough, please let me know what questions you have and i'll get you as much info as i can.... OK can you give me some examples of these war criminals being in the UK and how a change to UK law to enable prosecution outside EU or international legislation will help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 OK can you give me some examples of these war criminals being in the UK and how a change to UK law to enable prosecution outside EU or international legislation will help? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/30/change-universal-jurisdiction-law the EDM is to stop the law being changed in a nut shell: all this link does is sends a letter/email to your MP - urging them to sign (Early day motion) EDM 108 - calling on no change to Universal Jurisdiction.. what does it mean? currently anyone can present HARD evidence to a magistrate who can in turn issue an arrest warrant... this means war criminals such as ehud barak, george bush etc cannot escape the long arm of the law if they were to visit the UK (when not under diplomatic immunity) - they can be arrested and questioned. what will happen if EDM108 is not passed? the CONDEM government is pushing plans to change the way this law is enforced - it means people will have to present hard evidence to the director of public prosecutions @ white hall before an arrest warrant can be issued, this adds a political element to the equation - as you can imagine, it creates a massive time delay and said war criminals can come into the country, carry out their business and fly out without fear of arrest... denying justice to their victims. Universal law does not apply to just war criminals, it can be applied to drug dealers, murderers etc who commit offences abroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Edited: so basically you think the law should stay as it is, in order to stop suspected war criminals coming into the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Edited: so basically you think the law should stay as it is, in order to stop suspected war criminals coming into the country? quite a blow to the tourism industry (I hope the humour is seen here and not taken seriously) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Edited: so basically you think the law should stay as it is, in order to stop suspected war criminals coming into the country? bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 quite a blow to the tourism industry (I hope the humour is seen here and not taken seriously) but.... you're already in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 quite a blow to the tourism industry (I hope the humour is seen here and not taken seriously) but.... you're already in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I didn't know that George Bush was now classified as a war criminal, is this official, how about Tony Blair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 bingo! But surely some of these suspected war criminals (i.e. Bush) will only be suspected by some and not everyone, so it's a subjective decision. You're basically saying that if a magistrate (of which there are many) thinks someone might have committed war crimes then they shouldn't be allowed into our country for whatever reason. I can see situations where that wouldn't exactly create an ideal scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I didn't know that George Bush was now classified as a war criminal, is this official, how about Tony Blair? That's my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 But surely some of these suspected war criminals (i.e. Bush) will only be suspected by some and not everyone, so it's a subjective decision. You're basically saying that if a magistrate (of which there are many) thinks someone might have committed war crimes then they shouldn't be allowed into our country for whatever reason. I can see situations where that wouldn't exactly create an ideal scenario. .... it also means those in "power" will think twice or even three times when committing illegal wars resulting in the death of many innocent people. if there was very strong evidence to prove you had committed a crime abroad, then yes - the magistrate would issue an arrest warrant and have you questioned... if my book, anyone who takes life without due jurisdiction is a criminal- no exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 I didn't know that George Bush was now classified as a war criminal, is this official, how about Tony Blair? both war criminals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 .... it also means those in "power" will think twice or even three times when committing illegal wars resulting in the death of many innocent people. if there was very strong evidence to prove you had committed a crime abroad, then yes - the magistrate would issue an arrest warrant and have you questioned... if my book, anyone who takes life without due jurisdiction is a criminal- no exceptions. What constitutes 'due jurisdiction' to kill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/30/change-universal-jurisdiction-law the EDM is to stop the law being changed in a nut shell: all this link does is sends a letter/email to your MP - urging them to sign (Early day motion) EDM 108 - calling on no change to Universal Jurisdiction.. what does it mean? currently anyone can present HARD evidence to a magistrate who can in turn issue an arrest warrant... this means war criminals such as ehud barak, george bush etc cannot escape the long arm of the law if they were to visit the UK (when not under diplomatic immunity) - they can be arrested and questioned. what will happen if EDM108 is not passed? the CONDEM government is pushing plans to change the way this law is enforced - it means people will have to present hard evidence to the director of public prosecutions @ white hall before an arrest warrant can be issued, this adds a political element to the equation - as you can imagine, it creates a massive time delay and said war criminals can come into the country, carry out their business and fly out without fear of arrest... denying justice to their victims. Universal law does not apply to just war criminals, it can be applied to drug dealers, murderers etc who commit offences abroad George Bush isn't a war criminal. (So far as the UK is concerned) Also, what exactly are the government doing to 'push' these plans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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