spiderpigcity Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 It was. They also took off with a tail wind and had more luggage on board than they intially allowed for in their take off calculations. Why dont they weigh the passengers aswel as the cargo, surely if you had 350 fat beavers and 350 skinny pencils, it would make a lot of difference. They should also weight the womens handbags as they also weigh around 100kg each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Been at the sharp end of certifying for many years, the whole industry has developed around a full and free reporting system and no blame culture - this has given many positive things and allowed errors to be minimised. This case where manslaughter is charged can only be detrimental : you will end up with engineers pleading the 5 th during interview , no disclosure , no feedback , no progress. So every engineer would be tailed by a lawyer , every report you issue subject to a disclaimer . How do you investigate a wall of silence? Should everyone now carry legal insurance ? The problem is a commercial one , the pressures are commercial and people have to be able to afford to fly. If that is the way forward - fine Ill charge 500000 pounds a year for my signature and legal fees - lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderpigcity Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Been at the sharp end of certifying for many years, the whole industry has developed around a full and free reporting system and no blame culture - this has given many positive things and allowed errors to be minimised. This case where manslaughter is charged can only be detrimental : you will end up with engineers pleading the 5 th during interview , no disclosure , no feedback , no progress. So every engineer would be tailed by a lawyer , every report you issue subject to a disclaimer . How do you investigate a wall of silence? Should everyone now carry legal insurance ? The problem is a commercial one , the pressures are commercial and people have to be able to afford to fly. If that is the way forward - fine Ill charge 500000 pounds a year for my signature and legal fees - lol I think the industry does ok compared to the rail industry. look how many people have died on trains , a lot more frequent and they can carry as many passengers as planes. The drivers don't have to go through the training a pilot does, but has just as much responsibility. Guys get whacked every year on the rail lines while doing maintenance , it just never gets out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Been at the sharp end of certifying for many years, the whole industry has developed around a full and free reporting system and no blame culture - this has given many positive things and allowed errors to be minimised. This case where manslaughter is charged can only be detrimental : you will end up with engineers pleading the 5 th during interview , no disclosure , no feedback , no progress. So every engineer would be tailed by a lawyer , every report you issue subject to a disclaimer . How do you investigate a wall of silence? Should everyone now carry legal insurance ? The problem is a commercial one , the pressures are commercial and people have to be able to afford to fly. If that is the way forward - fine Ill charge 500000 pounds a year for my signature and legal fees - lol You are talking about mistakes though. Doing something by accident, this wasn't an accident. It was a deliberate deviation from the written manual. If those guys had done their job properly there wouldn't have been a problem. I understand the pressures of working in the industry, been here 13 years. If I get something wrong I put my hand up straight away to STOP accidents from happening. If I take a job 0.0001" too small I have to be honest as that tenth can be the difference between life and death. If an honest mistake was made, that disaster would have been a complete accident. It was an intentional deviation from the manual/instructions and should be dealt with IMO. Of course noone could predict what would happen and of course they didn't mean for it to happen.... that's what manslaughter is though.... cause of death without intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I can empathise with the pilot, I've had a turbine let go on me too, he was lucky though he had another 3 engines to get him home, I only had one engine which was lunched, so was forced to get a taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Been at the sharp end of certifying for many years, the whole industry has developed around a full and free reporting system and no blame culture - this has given many positive things and allowed errors to be minimised. This case where manslaughter is charged can only be detrimental : you will end up with engineers pleading the 5 th during interview , no disclosure , no feedback , no progress. So every engineer would be tailed by a lawyer , every report you issue subject to a disclaimer . How do you investigate a wall of silence? Should everyone now carry legal insurance ? The problem is a commercial one , the pressures are commercial and people have to be able to afford to fly. If that is the way forward - fine Ill charge 500000 pounds a year for my signature and legal fees - lol Hmmm, difficult one this. We have a similar safety culture at work where anything that cause a problem is reported and investigated and there is a no blame culture. This is in the interests of discovering potential problems that aren't currently known about though - at the end of the day people have safety accountabilities which they sign up to and if you fail to follow the correct procedure, know it is wrong and don't report it or act negligently then you're going to find yourself in trouble. Don't know if anyone remembers the Uberlingen mid-air collision over Germany a few years back. There were a whole series of things that went wrong there (as there usually is with acccidents). The air traffic controller involved (who was only partially to blame) was stabbed to death by one of the relatives of some of the people on the Russian plane a short while afterwards! Three of the managers at the air traffic control company were convicted of negligence and given suspended jail sentances IIRC - there were a number of systems failures but mostly it was process failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 A fully loaded A380 *needs* 3 engines to fly - only 2 to land and provide sufficient reverse thrust. Though I've only found this from what I've read, but as SimonB works in the aviation industry (iirc) I'd more likely think he's correct. Indeed I did read too about the pylons for the engines after several failures in the 70's and such I think that was changed? Indeed I do, although we're really only concerned with keeping them apart from each other, not them falling to bits... We do have to deal with trying to get them down safely once something has fallen to bits I guess though! I can empathise with the pilot, I've had a turbine let go on me too, he was lucky though he had another 3 engines to get him home, I only had one engine which was lunched, so was forced to get a taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 oh dear... Heard on the radio this morning that a quantas 747 had to land at the same airport with engine problems.... oooopsssie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yeah, heard about that one today. RB211 iirc. I don't know anything about those engines though as we don't repair them up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Boeing 787 is still having issues - Emergency landing yesterday - http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1475278 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Yeah, heard about that one today. RB211 iirc. I don't know anything about those engines though as we don't repair them up here. Isnt it pretty much the same engine, the Trent was a development of the 211? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Boeing 787 is still having issues - Emergency landing yesterday - http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1475278 "the cause of the smoke is yet to be determined, though the smoke is said to have emanated from a fire, possibly in the plane's rear electronics bay." "Though Boeing has reportedly said it had no reason to suspect the aircraft's engines manufactured by Rolls-Royce" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Rolls Royce shares lost 1 billion - oops In order to sell the A380 , they offered 100% dispatch warranty , as if there was a technical problem , no other aircraft could be used to carry the passengers , unless 2 or 3 other aircraft used , Airbus will transfer these costs to Rolls Royce I expect ,aint cheap when a flight is cancelled!! the punters want 5 star hotels,gucci clothes,fine dining and compo -even when they paid 99p -cos they are worth it!-lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 "Though Boeing has reportedly said it had no reason to suspect the aircraft's engines manufactured by Rolls-Royce" Thank god! I'm in Everett this week and they have a news crew outside the entrance to Boeing this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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