Tenant Advice

[Kopite]

Was wondering if anyone can help a housing issue for me.

 

Story is, there's a uni house with 4 people in it, contract is signed as a joint contract (not sure why!) rather than individually but each tenant has their own guarantor. One of the tenants failed the year and ended up dropping out.

The landlord and letting agent then found someone else to move in without notifying the remaining tenants and got this person to sign a contract without ever having viewed the house or met the other tenants. The problem is, this tenant is causing a lot of problems - within the first week, she's already threatened to kill one of the tenants, accused the other tenants of being racist (although 2 of the other 3 tenants are of chinese / malaysian descent) and has now started putting blood stained tissues on their toothbrushes. The other tenants have also coincidentally been getting ill this week with viral infections :s

Another problem is, this new tenant is also turning the heating on and leaving all the houselights (internal and external) whenever she's in the house which is obviously racking up bills. First months gas bill is £200!

 

My question is, what can be done? From university student accommodation's advice, the tenant and letting agents were in breach by letting this girl sign a contract to a house that hasn't been viewed and no prior warning was given to the existing tenants. Is this true? The other problem is, the girl has already played the race card and is saying she's been racially harassed so the university have warned the tenants that they aren't allowed to argue with her as it consitutes harrassment

Any legal suggestions?

 

Cheers

[The Raven]

I rent to students,

 

Standard contract to make them all responable. However i wouldnt have even bothered looking for for someone new as the others would have pay for the empty room unless they find someone else, as happened last year. They where quite smug when they told me one of the girls wasnt coming and they would have a nice "games room" I told them it would be an expensive games room at £350 per month, and advised them to read the contract again. They soon went out and found someone.

 

Legally they have not got any come back, it will not say anything in the contract about other people living the house other than the agreed.

 

I guess they could offer to pay for the room, then put it to the landlord they remove the problem girl for Health and safty issues? However i would be way to worried about the whole racist issue and leave it well alone.

 

If i was to advise i would tell the other 3 the threaten to leave the house, and refuse to pay. If that was my house i wouldnt want a long legal issue and lack of ret. They might call the bluff but aslong as the other 3 stick together then the one minger is responsable for the rent.

 

Make a fuss and kick up as much as possible would be my advise but dont expect to get rid of her in a hurry.

[Purity14]

Is this place in liverpool?

Get paul to pay her a visit. x

[The Raven]

I should add i still think students are great. Dispite making my life hard at times they are still less trouble than any other tenants i have had to deal with.

 

My last lot have moved all the sofas around so they can put a football table in the the middle of the room within reach of the bar. When i was asked to break into one of the rooms they had locked themselves out i asked if they where heading out. It was a friday night, after they told me they where not going anywhere in case i was going to kick the door down, so they could put it on youtube under the title "Landlord hulk smashes door"

 

The answer was........Been out every day this week so might aswell. LMAO

[marbleapple]

Standard contract to make them all responable.

 

it will not say anything in the contract about other people living the house other than the agreed.

 

I'm no expert in rental disputes but I think the first place to start looking would be the contract. I.e. what does the contract state.

 

Ravens advice above seems to presume your contact is the same as his. It might not (interpret that as 'it won't be') unless you both used the same solicitor or use the same pro-forma contract. He also appears to be looking at it from the landlords point of view. No insult intended here Raven, I just don't want Kopite taking your view for granted as correct (which it still may be but he won't know until he checks his contract).

 

Kopite, who are you in this? a tennant, landlord or a boyfriend of one of the girls with a viral disease - advice would I guess depend on which party you are. Who did they rent through (landlord, agent, uni?)

 

If it were me, I'd read the contract, find out what rights I had and then look to enforce them. From my uni days I seem to remember that the Landlord had the right to fill the space if one of the people didn't turn up. He gave us the option to do it to save himself hassle but he didn't need to ask us. Again though my contract might be different to yours now.

 

With regard to a person with capacity entering into agreement to live in a property without viewing it, I don't see how that is 'illegal' but suggests to me that the person is a nutter because they are willing to move into a house full of strangers without meeting them. That said, this did happen with the house I rented at university. It turned out good though because the lass was a stripper called 'Kitty'. She lived in our basement flat for two years. You could say we had a kitty in the basement that stripped on demand. Certainly made coming downstairs for a cup of tea in a morning quite exciting, especially when she was only wearing a bathrobe.

 

With regard to complaining, I don't see why you can't? I'd just log the incidents and ideally photograph everything so you have evidence to support it. At the end of the day, it is her word vs the rest of you.

[Ark]

If 'death threats' have been issued, just call the police- they tend to take a pretty dim view of that kind of thing.

[The Raven]

I'm no expert in rental disputes but I think the first place to start looking would be the contract. I.e. what does the contract state.

 

Ravens advice above seems to presume your contact is the same as his. It might not (interpret that as 'it won't be') unless you both used the same solicitor or use the same pro-forma contract. He also appears to be looking at it from the landlords point of view. No insult intended here Raven, I just don't want Kopite taking your view for granted as correct (which it still may be but he won't know until he checks his contract).

 

Kopite, who are you in this? a tennant, landlord or a boyfriend of one of the girls with a viral disease - advice would I guess depend on which party you are. Who did they rent through (landlord, agent, uni?)

 

If it were me, I'd read the contract, find out what rights I had and then look to enforce them. From my uni days I seem to remember that the Landlord had the right to fill the space if one of the people didn't turn up. He gave us the option to do it to save himself hassle but he didn't need to ask us. Again though my contract might be different to yours now.

 

With regard to a person with capacity entering into agreement to live in a property without viewing it, I don't see how that is 'illegal' but suggests to me that the person is a nutter because they are willing to move into a house full of strangers without meeting them. That said, this did happen with the house I rented at university. It turned out good though because the lass was a stripper called 'Kitty'. She lived in our basement flat for two years. You could say we had a kitty in the basement that stripped on demand. Certainly made coming downstairs for a cup of tea in a morning quite exciting, especially when she was only wearing a bathrobe.

 

With regard to complaining, I don't see why you can't? I'd just log the incidents and ideally photograph everything so you have evidence to support it. At the end of the day, it is her word vs the rest of you.

 

I bet my car it will be more or less the same. I certainly wont say anything about adding another person to the house in respect to it being non lawful to rent a house to someone who has not seen it.

 

By all means discount everything i said.

[Max Headroom]

If 'death threats' have been issued, just call the police- they tend to take a pretty dim view of that kind of thing.

 

Isn't the "racist card" also dimly looked at these days?

[The-Plethora]

It looks like whilst the card is in play no rational discussions can be had

 

 

On a side note I am so glad I never have to go back into student digs, so many arguments and pettyness, paying for electricity.

I would also suggest the remaining 3 stick together and see the landlord.

 

I left the rented house because it was a crap hole, being woken up by wet plaster falling on my head is not what I expect. They held on to my deposit which I was not to fussed about but tried to get me to pay all upcoming rent, I sent them a letter with just some of the dodgy workman ship including the explosive electricity supply and never heard from them again.

 

Never phone the landlord, always write, email or document everything.

[The Raven]

Right i looked at this everyway i can, including a major agent where i am.

 

Did the old lot sign a new contract when the minger was put in? If not there may be a way out.

 

If they are still on the existing one then they have rented the house. They have entered into an agreement whereby they have rented the house as a whole. Therefore they have ownership of that house until the contract is up.

 

Unless they signed something to say they wanted the newbie? They can ask her to leave as they are legal tenants. They should have been asked if they wanted to pay the shortfall on the rent, find someone else or ask the landlord to help. However the landlord can not introduce someone into a house that is already rented as it would breach the existing contract of HOUSE rental. As its not room rental.

 

Hope that makes sence.

[Paul]

Get paul to pay her a visit. x

 

Yep, reasonable rates, I'l get rid of the $%&! bitch

[Kopite]

Right i looked at this everyway i can, including a major agent where i am.

 

Did the old lot sign a new contract when the minger was put in? If not there may be a way out.

 

If they are still on the existing one then they have rented the house. They have entered into an agreement whereby they have rented the house as a whole. Therefore they have ownership of that house until the contract is up.

 

Unless they signed something to say they wanted the newbie? They can ask her to leave as they are legal tenants. They should have been asked if they wanted to pay the shortfall on the rent, find someone else or ask the landlord to help. However the landlord can not introduce someone into a house that is already rented as it would breach the existing contract of HOUSE rental. As its not room rental.

 

Hope that makes sence.

 

Hi mate. It's a bit of a dodgy contract anyway, originally it was signed way back in June or something. Only 2 out of the 4 girls named on the contract moved in, one failed and the other moved in with her dad instead. No amendments have been made to that contract since. They weren't given any choice by the landlord, the landlord literally phoned saying a new girl had signed a contract (no idea what contract as it's a joint one and the girls haven't agreed to anything) and that she was moving in the next day.

 

/snip.

 

Pm replied to

 

Yep, reasonable rates, I'l get rid of the $%&! bitch

 

Like i'd ever encourage violence....

[The Raven]

There is the way out, mate. WHen they signed they took the house. They can tell the landlord he is in breach of the contract.

[Kopite]

There is the way out, mate. WHen they signed they took the house. They can tell the landlord he is in breach of the contract.

 

Sounds like it but the landlord is a bit of a bellend too, first time he's had students. He's speaking to the minger girl but dunno what the outcome there will be. If nothing happens, all 3 girls have agreed between themselves they're not paying more rent and will threaten to move out.

[The Raven]

Sounds like it but the landlord is a bit of a bellend too, first time he's had students. He's speaking to the minger girl but dunno what the outcome there will be. If nothing happens, all 3 girls have agreed between themselves they're not paying more rent and will threaten to move out.

 

Yup.

 

When he kicks off they need to say the following.

 

"They signed an contract to rent the House as a whole. Therfore no more tenants can be moved in unless they agree and sign a new agrement, As they where not asked the landlord is in breach"

 

See how that goes.

[Kopite]

Yup.

 

When he kicks off they need to say the following.

 

"They signed an contract to rent the House as a whole. Therfore no more tenants can be moved in unless they agree and sign a new agrement, As they where not asked the landlord is in breach"

 

See how that goes.

 

Will do, waiting to hear how his chat goes first

[Kopite]

Update on this

 

The situation has escalated and it seems this girl is a nutter - she's been talking to herself in her room and randomly laughing in the bathroom while saying "they'll all see, it's cause im black, tomorrow is the day". There's also been a few face to face threats so the police have made a note but said they can't do anything.

The landlord went to speak to the girl but she refused to come out of her room. Might be a bit more help here, but contract wise it gets interesting.

The girls have a group contract that is classes 4 of them as "the tenant". However, only 2 of the 4 actually moved in ,the letting agents have simply crossed off one name and added a 3rd girls name - there's no problems with this girl at all, but the contract was amended without the other girls present and no signatures were taken to confirm this change. The troublemaker girl isn't even named on the copy of the contract that the other 3 girls have. The signed date on the contract is also wrong (months in advance) and each copy is a photocopy. I have the contracts signed if anyone in the profession might want a look at it. The troublemaker girl has signed something else at the letting agents before viewing the house or meeting the other housemates so there's a contract out there with a different name on it but not one that the current housemates have or have agreed to.

 

The landlord seems very inexperienced as he's unsure of his rights. Am i right in saying that if this girl isn't named on the original contract and the other 3 haven't resigned an updated one, can't they just kick her out?

[mistertwo]

Sounds like it but the landlord is a bit of a bellend too, first time he's had students. He's speaking to the minger girl but dunno what the outcome there will be. If nothing happens, all 3 girls have agreed between themselves they're not paying more rent and will threaten to move out.

 

 

I wouldn't advise witholding rent, it can screw you up for a long time - but there are remedies to get it back should it be lawfully permissable.

 

The first thing to really consider is how the property is let. If the property is let as a house to sharers, then the people that originally signed the agreement are the tenants that are liable for the rent. This is unless there has been a mutual "get-out" clause for the couple that have left.

 

The contract, essentially, is between the parties that started the tenancy and the landlord or his managing agent. Third parties, therefore, that are shoved in simply because there is some extra space aren't permissable without further (written) agreement.

 

If this was the case, then the landlord that put the new tenant in is in breach of contract, thus meaning you can demand that it be remedied and/or compensated.

 

If you are rented a ROOM within a HOUSE, IE, not the house itself, then you have very little legal redress unless, of course, psycho bitch is rented your room.

 

I haven't seen your tenancy agreement (feel free to send it to me and I'll find you a way out - PM for email address) but I'm also assuming that the psycho girl is in breach of hers. Anti-social behaviour and distruption to neighbors (which you are) is usually something that is forbidden contractually. In this case, the landlord is within his rights to serve a section 21 notice.

 

Did you let through what I'd call a "proper" agent? Or through a student accomodation type place? The latter often have no idea what they're doing.

 

I do this stuff everyday - but just make sure you document everything that is said between you and the landlord and you should be fine.

 

There isn't a tenancy agreement that can't be broken - one way or another!

 

Hope this helps,

 

Josh

[The Raven]

Update on this

 

The situation has escalated and it seems this girl is a nutter - she's been talking to herself in her room and randomly laughing in the bathroom while saying "they'll all see, it's cause im black, tomorrow is the day". There's also been a few face to face threats so the police have made a note but said they can't do anything.

The landlord went to speak to the girl but she refused to come out of her room. Might be a bit more help here, but contract wise it gets interesting.

The girls have a group contract that is classes 4 of them as "the tenant". However, only 2 of the 4 actually moved in ,the letting agents have simply crossed off one name and added a 3rd girls name - there's no problems with this girl at all, but the contract was amended without the other girls present and no signatures were taken to confirm this change. The troublemaker girl isn't even named on the copy of the contract that the other 3 girls have. The signed date on the contract is also wrong (months in advance) and each copy is a photocopy. I have the contracts signed if anyone in the profession might want a look at it. The troublemaker girl has signed something else at the letting agents before viewing the house or meeting the other housemates so there's a contract out there with a different name on it but not one that the current housemates have or have agreed to.

 

The landlord seems very inexperienced as he's unsure of his rights. Am i right in saying that if this girl isn't named on the original contract and the other 3 haven't resigned an updated one, can't they just kick her out?

 

Correct, They can ask her to leave. When they signed the first one they have full rental for the house as a whole for the length of the contract therfore they have final say over other people moving in, without agreeing a new contract they have every right to remove her. More to the point the landlord had no right adding her in.

 

However they need to be prepared to take up the lost rent if they chuck her out. Better still find someone else.

 

Landlord by all accounts has not got a leg to stand on. Present him with the facts and ask him to remove the girl. If he wont explain he is in breach and the other 3 will walk out.

[Kopite]

Josh has had a look at the contract and says it isn't worth the paper it's written on. The girl tonight has told the others to "watch out tomorrow night" and she's also vandalised the microwave. Police informed again but can't do anything....

 

Question - if she's not a legal tenant and isn't bound by the contract, does she need to be given a notice period?

[The Raven]

Josh has had a look at the contract and says it isn't worth the paper it's written on. The girl tonight has told the others to "watch out tomorrow night" and she's also vandalised the microwave. Police informed again but can't do anything....

 

Question - if she's not a legal tenant and isn't bound by the contract, does she need to be given a notice period?

 

Not by my account no. Its a huge issue for the landlord of course as he will get sued by the mircowave kid.

 

The fact the landlord has not acted already is behond stupid. As i said if its the same case and contract as i give out they have every right to remove her, without notice. I wouldnt advise it however its the landlords job. I would still tell him he is in breach and its her or them make it clear you would sue for damages, IE rental for the rest of year ect.

 

The landlord needs to do something, in my contracts she would have breached it the second she mashed the mircowave, i would have removed her.

[mistertwo]

Question - if she's not a legal tenant and isn't bound by the contract, does she need to be given a notice period?

 

A very contentious question.

 

Strictly speaking, she does - as she signed a tenancy agreement with the landlord. It's not her fault that he messed up.

 

If your landlord choses to evict her under clause 6.1 of your agreement, for instance, then he ought to take it through the courts to reclaim the property.

 

I'll have a word with ARLA about this for you today and let you know.

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

[marbleapple]

Edit

[stevie_b]

Interesting case (although pretty unpleasant for those personally involved). The new tenant sounds like she's a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic. I'd be advising those involved to hide any pet bunnies they might have.

 

I was going to try to post some sensible advice but 1) it sounds like others have beaten me to what I was going to say and 2) it's tricky to expand on what's already been said without seeing the contract, as whether the tenants have rented out the whole house as a single entity (more likely) or as a group of specifically 4 people (less likely) depends on the wording of the contract.

 

Not being legally qualified in any way, I doubt I'd be able to offer any reliable advice even if I saw the contract.

[Kopite]

Just posting off my phone. The contract shows the house is rented as a group with the original 4 girls classed as "the tenant". Yeah it'd be great if you could check Josh apparently she was in the bathroom chanting until 4am and "tonights the night"