Jake Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 What's up with that graph? Surely, given a fixed scale, the torque and bhp lines should cross only once. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Looks like wheelspin given the dips and climbs to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 thats is a good result! Cams made a nice difference in my BPU but surely anyore from this power is really pushing the dookie on the turbos?? Without a doubt its pushing it dude if we put cams in we will prob turn the boost down and keep peak power the same but it won't fall off like it does now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 What's up with that graph? Surely, given a fixed scale, the torque and bhp lines should cross only once. What am I missing? Sorry dude, being a numpty the scales for torque and HP are different, thats me trying to make the graph more photogenic, heres the graph as it should look when Matt got it up:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Plethora Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 For the uninitiated are hybrids just rebuilt stock turbos with stronger parts in them? Either way thats a very impressive result for not that much outlay and could be an interesting alternative to a small single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 For the uninitiated are hybrids just rebuilt stock turbos with stronger parts in them? Either way thats a very impressive result for not that much outlay and could be an interesting alternative to a small single. They are stock turbo housings with modified internals. However, this particular car has had a lot more work and a lot more money spent on it than just a set of hybrids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 They are stock turbo housings with modified internals. However, this particular car has had a lot more work and a lot more money spent on it than just a set of hybrids Quite what CR do when the hybrid them I cannot say, for example when they hybrid an MR2 turbo they completley alter the housing and put a much bigger wheel in, these particular turbos came off another car that had a single conversion and it was cheaper for james to get theses rebuilt than turn J specs into hybrids, CR said they were done differently to the way they do them and altered quite a lot, seat of the pants says this is a very quick driveable car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 For the uninitiated are hybrids just rebuilt stock turbos with stronger parts in them? Either way thats a very impressive result for not that much outlay and could be an interesting alternative to a small single. This car has an engine that is complete overkill for the present set up, I would be quite happy to bolt on a turbo like a 6765 and run at 2 bar, it has forged pistons, refurbbed head, fully balanced bottom end and all ARP bolts, I still think one day James intends to go single, with the 264 cams the curve will flatten out a lot, we are not looking for masses more HP (torque would be nice though) just a flatter curve with less drop off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Quite what CR do when the hybrid them I cannot say, for example when they hybrid an MR2 turbo they completley alter the housing and put a much bigger wheel in, these particular turbos came off another car that had a single conversion and it was cheaper for james to get theses rebuilt than turn J specs into hybrids, CR said they were done differently to the way they do them and altered quite a lot, seat of the pants says this is a very quick driveable car. Ah true, I should have said 'most hybrids'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_si Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 is this a cheaper option than going for a big single? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 is this a cheaper option than going for a big single? Completly different approach, chalk and cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandip Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 Certainly ain't cheap, but the everyday drivability should be great. I know its an overkill on the engine build for the hybrids but as later mods come on then there will be no need to come across the usual problems of singles with older engines. I will be running on a daily basis at 1.4 and 1.2 as to avoid high egts as Dude says, I said as previously was looking at Chiefgrovers car and the decission was to go for this set up and I am sure I made the right choice for me. Picking the car up on Monday and looking forward to the drive home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Sorry dude, being a numpty the scales for torque and HP are different, thats me trying to make the graph more photogenic, heres the graph as it should look when Matt got it up:blink: Do you have a plot showing the boost? The top end figures are impressive but it'd be good to see how the turbos spool up compared to a BPU TT running stock J-spec turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Do you have a plot showing the boost? The top end figures are impressive but it'd be good to see how the turbos spool up compared to a BPU TT running stock J-spec turbos. Im now banned from pressing any buttons on the Dyno !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Im now banned from pressing any buttons on the Dyno !!!!!! it's probably for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Firstly that's a cracking result. I think 475 is the bench now? Why does the power tail off so dramatically? Most graphs I have seen the power keeps rising until around 6k before tailing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Firstly that's a cracking result. I think 475 is the bench now? Why does the power tail off so dramatically? Most graphs I have seen the power keeps rising until around 6k before tailing off. Its still making good power at 5800 then the cams go off but you don't feel that on the road, this is a better graph as its scaled correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Its still making good power at 5800 then the cams go off but you don't feel that on the road, this is a better graph as its scaled correctly. Ahh, yeah. That's more like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I'll chuck a few bits of info I remember about hybrids into the mix here, covering various things already discussed Longevity These hybrids were an unknown make put on the car by the previous owner. Never found out anything about them really, apart from they were definitely steel bladed and subsequently slightly laggier than stockers. They were on my car from 2001 or earlier until I went single turbo back in 2004 (christ was it that long ago?!). I did probably 40k miles on them, a fair few high speed runs in that As far as I know they are on the 3rd or 4th owner since I sold them on and still going strong. Power My old hybrids dyno'd at 480, but that was some scabbo old dyno run by a dodgy place, so who knows. I know it was strong, I know it'd walk away from a BPU stocker with a head start, and I know it'd shuffle the tyres through 2nd gear Not proper spin them up like a single does, but they'd deffo complain with a sh sh sh sh sh sh kinda noise. The single turbo proper smoked the rear wheels and the acceleration is brutal compared to the hybrids, I dunno if 'only' 100bhp more could make such a difference, so maybe they only ever did more like 450? This was with big IC, 256/264 cams, injectors and full decat as supporting mods. Cams will really improve the last 1000rpms on those suckers btw - get them in, it's all positive EGTs The EGTs ran at 950degC under worst case scenarios (top speed run at TOTB II in blazing heat). I think I got a 123mph trap there as well but I've no recorded proof of that. I used to have the slip stuck to the wall but that's long gone. Boost I used to run 1.4bar on the blighters. I once did a fairly decent test and at 1.5bar the power dropped off markedly, whereas at 1.2bar it had less power than 1.4 (although still more than at 1.5bar). This was done by crudely timing in-gear acceleration time, but the differences were enough to be easily measured. Of course, that's for my mystery turbos, and probably doesn't hold true for most of the hybrids we've seen over the years. Other notes Over the years, single turbo setups have improved in all areas - cost, reliability, comprehensiveness of installation kits, competence of installers, engine management solutions and so forth. This has diminished the role of hybrids in the upgrade path, and the period of ropey hybrids back a few years where they gave no more power and exploded regularly knocked the rep of them. However, all this doesn't actually mean that decent hybrids don't actually give any more power. They do - enough to easily notice over BPU. I slightly outdragged Paul Whiffin's new single setup at TOTB, but the list of racedriver excuses Paul has for that incident is legendary -Ian PS say hi to El Tel from me as well PPS it just occurred to me my 256/264 cams were actually out of PW's car! They are still going strong and have no visible wear after 8+ years! Edited October 30, 2010 by Ian C (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I thought his car was mapped and dynoed at TDI? 435rwhp works out to be about 494fwhp. Add 10bhp to the rwhp figure and divide by .88 has always worked out about right imo, fwhp is alway a guess, the only true figure is rwhp but if everyone uses the same conversion factor all is good. interested in what swandips rwhp was. car was mapped by sam tdi top bloke there car made 405rear wheel hub horse power on there dyno, not sure what that equates to at the fly i was under the impression about 7/9 percent transmission loss, however tdi quote up to 17 percent loss, so any where tween 435hp and 475hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 car was mapped by sam tdi top bloke there car made 405rear wheel hub horse power on there dyno, not sure what that equates to at the fly i was under the impression about 7/9 percent transmission loss, however tdi quote up to 17 percent loss, so any where tween 435hp and 475hp Usually 15% for a manual around 20% for an auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) so i am pushing around 460hp, when i hook up 3rd 4th and 5th ernies gtr chiefgrover cant pull away, so thats the only on road comparision i can relate to. Edited October 30, 2010 by nigelboyne (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 car was mapped by sam tdi top bloke there car made 405rear wheel hub horse power on there dyno, not sure what that equates to at the fly i was under the impression about 7/9 percent transmission loss, however tdi quote up to 17 percent loss, so any where tween 435hp and 475hp Are you running stock turbos or hybrids? Results from a hub dyno are usually a quite a bit higher than a wheel dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Results from a hub dyno are usually a quite a bit higher than a wheel dyno. Dynapack id tend to agree but he is talking about a rototest. At 1.8 bar i got 748rhhp on TDI's rototest hub dyno, and the same setup just 1.9bar instead i got 760rwhp at SRR dyno, rototest is very similar the dyno dynamics imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Some information post Ian To the OP, that is a very good setup! Well done on the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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