Old topic new government solution, benefits ?

[tooquicktostop]

Interested to hear thoughts on benefit reforms from the government today, I know so many on here like myself work really hard to pay for life's necessities as well as the car etc, how do you feel about the income/benefit state proposals

 

The 10.15 pm news has just interviewed people who have worked out that minimum wage means a break even on benefit, is that not a better place than not working as it offers opportunities and pride going forward , if a job exists it should be taken ?

[jagman]

There are so many "reforms" Government is looking at , such as PAYE changes that force the employer to pay the Govt the employees wage and then they deduct the tax and pay the employee is salary..

All it highlights is the loss of control and cohesive planning that the Govt has , grasping at straws and suck it and see ideas

Every action has a consequence and an unintened consequence , most politicians do not seem capable of seeing the unintended.....

[Branners]

But you have to admit that the current system isnt working and needs changing?

 

Many of us work our arses off to try and have a nice life. I'm on a reasonable pay at work, and my wife works part time but I still have absolutely nothing left at the end of each month and I live a far from extravagant life. Yet I see those on benefits with all the latest TVs, consoles, holidays and so on. So something isnt right in the world when the people who have worked hard have to fund those who have not?

 

You can probably guess, I am not a fan of labour or any of its 'future fair for all' approach when the future seemed as fair for those who do nothing as it does for does who work. Time for a change.

[Mcgoo]

But you have to admit that the current system isnt working and needs changing?

 

Many of us work our arses off to try and have a nice life. I'm on a reasonable pay at work, and my wife works part time but I still have absolutely nothing left at the end of each month and I live a far from extravagant life. Yet I see those on benefits with all the latest TVs, consoles, holidays and so on. So something isnt right in the world when the people who have worked hard have to fund those who have not?

 

You can probably guess, I am not a fan of labour or any of its 'future fair for all' approach when the future seemed as fair for those who do nothing as it does for does who work. Time for a change.

 

 

In my opinion, people on benefits should be able 'survive' on benefits, not 'live' like those that work.

 

Obviously If you have been paying into the system for X amount of years and have been made redundant, you should be more comfortable than those that haven't, but only for a limited time (maybe a few years) enough time to pick yourself up and get another job.

 

Those on benefits should NOT get money. They should get vouchers for food, cloths etc and their bills payed by the system.

[SBDJ]

Those on benefits should NOT get money. They should get vouchers for food, cloths etc and their bills payed by the system.

 

Benefits is a very generic term. A large amount of the country receive benefits for a wide range of reasons - not necessarily simply for bills, food or clothes.

[jagman]

"So something isnt right in the world when the people who have worked hard have to fund those who have not?"

 

Really think about that statement !

[jagman]

25% of the kids in the uk are from single parent homes , in a country where 1 income is seldom enough (ave salary circa 24000 ) average house 168000 ish , so where and how do these people live without Govt subsidies?

to get in the top 10% of earners is just over 40,000 a year , even then how do you live and where ?

This current crisis will run a long time , many hard working professionals will lose jobs and join the Characterised dole "spongers"

 

Is it fair for example for 1 person to rip into Govt money on a contact making millions upon millions and provide poor service?

Fairness is a very perspective driven thing , and many examples of un fairness exist , seen farming subsidies? fair ? The Baby boomer generation fair? Tax exiles Fair?

 

So we bail out the financial sector and banks for billions and reward those that caused this whole debacle , and the rest "let them eat cake " providing they have enough vouchers

[Tony]

Make the minimum wage a living wage & and that would help? But then a lot of companys are happy for the goverment (us) to make up the differance, saves them money national insurance etc.This goverment will allways hit the working class hard.If they want to save money they should stop giving money out in foreign aid for a start.

[The-Plethora]

Foreign aid is a thorny issue, I wonder how much of it actually makes it to the people that need it and how much goes towards paying for guns.

 

Vouchers is the way to go I think, a lot of these shops take those Hi Street vouchers you get so I dont think a roll out would be too bad.

People do seem to make a life for themselves on it, this was intended as a safety net to stop you losing your house and be the minimum to get by on, not to buy 10 lambert, 8 Ace and micro chips!

 

The thing that annoys me that I have paid in since I could get a job and have worked hard and got a mortgage, its a small house but its mine and I worked for it. If I lost my job I wouldnt be entitled to anything yet those fine gentlemen in tracksuit bottoms and horizontally striped T-Shirts clean up. Probably throw a bit of undiagnosed "back trouble" into the mix as well for " a bit of compo"

[Wez]

Don't get me started, the current system just does not work, well not in the eyes of hard workers. For those exploiting the system I am sure they think it works well.

 

I agree that money should not be handed over, vouchers and rations are the way to go.

[davej705]

Talking with my sister the other day,we worked out she,her husband and 2 sons would be better off signing on,getting the rent,council tax,dole money etc paid than they are now.they both currently work their tits off. She refuses to go on the dole but there are many families that won't struggle when they can have it easy.

 

I own and run a small courier business,have done since I was 21. I started this business by saving hard for 2years with zero help from anyone and now the government takes about half of everything I earn so bums can sit around having 10 kids and drinking Stella,it makes my blood boil

 

The government will never change this

[davej705]

Talking with my sister the other day,we worked out she,her husband and 2 sons would be better off signing on,getting the rent,council tax,dole money etc paid than they are now.they both currently work their tits off. She refuses to go on the dole but there are many families that won't struggle when they can have it easy.

 

I own and run a small courier business,have done since I was 21. I started this business by saving hard for 2years with zero help from anyone and now the government takes about half of everything I earn so bums can sit around having 10 kids and drinking Stella,it makes my blood boil

 

The government will never change this

^

[Tony]

NOT all the unemployed want to be there, would you go to work if all you got out of it was a couple of quid extra? pay a living wage! (as i said) stop importing workers, adopt the U.S. system (green card) Educate our children to want to work not be pop stars? Sort the banks out & make them pay back the money they took from the tax payers to bail them out, before they start paying any bonuses

[davej705]

NOT all the unemployed want to be there, would you go to work if all you got out of it was a couple of quid extra? pay a living wage! (as i said) stop importing workers, adopt the U.S. system (green card) Educate our children to want to work not be pop stars? Sort the banks out & make them pay back the money they took from the tax payers to bail them out, before they start paying any bonuses

 

It's not working just for a couple of extra quid it's the pride you get from earning your own way in life

 

I know that not all people on benefits waste the money,I was raised in a single parent family on benefits,difference was the money was spent how it was intended to be spent

 

I dont think benefits should be stopped because there are people that need them,however they need to stop being wasted on people who clearly don't want to work

[davej705]

Also agree with you on foreign workers and banks paying back the tax they owe before taking bonuses

[Terminator]

The word benefit, is far too simplistic. There are those who deserve every penny and more. But there are scum and I mean scum, who have no intention of working ever. There are also those who play the system and get far more than those us who have worked for years and years to to keep them at home. This makes me very angry, apart from those who physical can't live without the help, everyone on benefit should be forced to drag their lazy arses out of bed at least 5 days a week to work in the community. The most difficult issue is child benefit, how do you make sure kids are OK, it is not their choice that their parents cant be arsed to work. I am not talking about those who want to work but cant find work, they have my every sympathy

 

The biggest problem facing any government in welfare reforms are the cost associated with enforcing a new system that actually works. If they continue with the proposed job cuts I can't see how they will have enough revenue to make significant changes. It will be the most recently unemployed who will be hit hardest as they will be new to the system. The life time scroungers will have many years of comfort before the system catches up with them. Blanket one size fits all are the cheapest systems to operate but the easiest to abuse.

 

Cutting employment, there for cutting tax income, lowering the % of those with disposable to contribute to VAT income, while paying out more benefit to those recently unemployed, just does not add up. The only result I can see is the economy takes another dive. Even the IMF are strongly advising the government not to make savage cuts to avoid a double dip recession.

[Tony]

It's not working just for a couple of extra quid it's the pride you get from earning your own way in life

 

I know that not all people on benefits waste the money,I was raised in a single parent family on benefits,difference was the money was spent how it was intended to be spent

 

I dont think benefits should be stopped because there are people that need them,however they need to stop being wasted on people who clearly don't want to work

 

Its not easy is when the goverments of this country have shut down or sold off and shut down our industry, so we have great chunks of our country with no work? As i said its education of the children that you should be proud to work and we cant all be pop stars & people like you who start there own companys are more important, the same as the man who does a boring job for 20 years is a hero

[Branners]

"So something isnt right in the world when the people who have worked hard have to fund those who have not?"

 

Really think about that statement !

 

Still dont see a problem with it. Why should I work my arse off while somebody else sits around taking my money for doing nothing.

 

Are you saying that those who have made an effort to better themselves should feel privileged to fund those who have never made an effort and expect everything given to them on a plate?

 

Think about what you are saying as it makes no sense to me at all. I believe your approach is what is wrong with society and needs to be drastically overhauled.

[Tony]

Still dont see a problem with it. Why should I work my arse off while somebody else sits around taking my money for doing nothing.

 

Are you saying that those who have made an effort to better themselves should feel privileged to fund those who have never made an effort and expect everything given to them on a plate?

 

Think about what you are saying as it makes no sense to me at all. I believe your approach is what is wrong with society and needs to be drastically overhauled.

Where would you rather see your money go HOME or abroad? You are right the abuse of the system is wrong & should be sorted but not at the cost of the innocent.

[davej705]

Its not easy is when the goverments of this country have shut down or sold off and shut down our industry, so we have great chunks of our country with no work? As i said its education of the children that you should be proud to work and we cant all be pop stars & people like you who start there own companys are more important, the same as the man who does a boring job for 20 years is a hero

 

I'm no better than anyone for running my own business,I got here by pulling overtime for 2 years straight,when my friends were holidaying I was working.I EARNED it

 

I totally refuse to believe there aren't jobs out there,there are but sone people think they're too good to do them

 

I agree this country needs more industry,but first get rid of the idiotic trade unions so businesses can actually thrive and I agree that children need more education

[stevie_b]

Lots of interesting views here. I think it's right that the "Haves" subsidise the "Have Nots" to a certain extent, and within bounds. That is after all how a welfare state works. In the USA, South Africa etc, it saddens me to hear how "every man for himself" the system is.

 

Back to the UK: the key is to incentivise people to work. This is potentially unpalatable because it will probably mean raising wages (giving rise to serious inflation), reducing benefits for everyone who receives them, or a bit of both.

 

With benefit scrounging, like any social problem, there will always be those who need the benefit, those who are just milking the system and those who are borderline between the two. Unfortunately there isn't an objective test you can apply to determine which of the 3 camps each claimant is in.

 

FWIW I think the government are having a fair stab at tackling the problem.

[Tony]

I'm no better than anyone for running my own business,I got here by pulling overtime for 2 years straight,when my friends were holidaying I was working.I EARNED it

 

I totally refuse to believe there aren't jobs out there,there are but sone people think they're too good to do them

 

I agree this country needs more industry,but first get rid of the idiotic trade unions so businesses can actually thrive and I agree that children need more education

 

I agree with everything you said, except the union part im afraid, They have a place in the system.

[davej705]

I agree with everything you said, except the union part im afraid, They have a place in the system.

 

The unions have a place but the strikes and bully boy tactics kill competitiveness. Look at the royal mail,they keep striking and their service is getting worse. I personally gained a shitload of work because of the last set of strikes.it's a perfect example of royal mail workers cutting there nose off to spite their face. They lost work to the private sector.I wouldn't have been the only one to gain work from it.They are striking because the bosses at royal mail are trying to be more competitive to survive.what's wrong with that?

 

How about British airways? They are losing money left right and centre but the union bosses still try to make them strike.how does that help? If the money isn't there for pay rises etc then surely that's understandable

[Tony]

The unions have a place but the strikes and bully boy tactics kill competitiveness. Look at the royal mail,they keep striking and their service is getting worse. I personally gained a $#@!load of work because of the last set of strikes.it's a perfect example of royal mail workers cutting there nose off to spite their face. They lost work to the private sector.I wouldn't have been the only one to gain work from it.They are striking because the bosses at royal mail are trying to be more competitive to survive.what's wrong with that?

 

How about British airways? They are losing money left right and centre but the union bosses still try to make them strike.how does that help? If the money isn't there for pay rises etc then surely that's understandable

 

Agreed not all strikes are good or even required. On the bright side you got work from it! not a foreign company & hopfully will employ british workers as you expand, On the other hand i saw the devil (thatcher destroy our cole mining industry in favour of imported coal.) Do you employ anyone ? do you pay minimum wage or a living wage? If you pay minimum wage to a married man, i lay money he is claiming for somthing. (not a personal attack, just a point)

[davej705]

I currently employee 5 people,3 have children so assume they get child benefit etc.the other two are single.all british tax paying citizens! They get above the minimum wage

 

I did have 16 employees January 2009,then the recession hit and an influx of polish cheap labour employeed by a rival firm made as lose work. I nearly went out of business,had to take my life savings from under the floorboards ( can't trust these robbing banks ) just to stay afloat. Things are slowly picking up again now so all is looking ok,will be advertising some jobs soon and expanding again