Power Delivery ?

[Nodalmighty]

There have been a few posts that have made me rekindle an idea that is nothing new but seems to have been over looked to some degree where Supra's are concerned.

 

What would be your ideal power delivery?

 

1) The TT Sequential

 

2) The TTC parallel (nowt below 3k)

 

3) The Small single (nowt blow 4k)

 

4) The Big Single (nowt below 5k)

 

5) Modern Screw SuperCharger (Instant boost from 1500k maintained to the red line but limited on top end performance).

 

6) Modern Screw Blower and Big turbo in support (Instant boost from 1500k with monster top end performance)

 

7) Something else (V8 conversion etc...)

Edited September 28, 2010 by Nodalmighty (see edit history)

[Gaz6002]

Big power NA or twin-charged.

[barneybrendan]

number 6 all the way got loads of info on this saved on the laptop and a video from a guy in the states that has been doing this for long time explaining setting up with diagrams ect.All down to money though at the moment,but that is my overall aim.

[JamieP]

Big singles dont have to be slow spooling if you have a good setup.

 

My 76 spools better than a lot of 67's in fact, compare my graph at the bottom to Ian C's 67mm.

 

http://2bartuning.com/dynographs/showgraph.php

 

Saying that, i will go with 6, i got some pics of a supercharged/turbocharged setup on the pc if you want them, car Arnout was building iirc.

[Nodalmighty]

Big singles dont have to be slow spooling if you have a good setup.

 

My 76 spools better than a lot of 67's in fact, compare my graph at the bottom to Ian C's 67mm.

 

http://2bartuning.com/dynographs/showgraph.php

 

Saying that, i will go with 6, i got some pics of a supercharged/turbocharged setup on the pc if you want them, car Arnout was building iirc.

 

Yes please, [email protected]. Did it ever get finished?

 

A 76 is still a small (maybe medium sized turbo). But your power curve is mighty impressive. I note GSC1 cams are unique to this set up and may have had a bearing on it.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Nodalmighty (see edit history)

[barneybrendan]

Big singles dont have to be slow spooling if you have a good setup.

 

My 76 spools better than a lot of 67's in fact, compare my graph at the bottom to Ian C's 67mm.

 

http://2bartuning.com/dynographs/showgraph.php

 

Saying that, i will go with 6, i got some pics of a supercharged/turbocharged setup on the pc if you want them, car Arnout was building iirc.

 

post them on here

[JamieP]

I dont know if he ever finished it, there was a thread on here years back, he refused to pay the members fee iirc and left.

 

 

 

[JamieP]

There is also this one, i dont know any specs on it though, and it dont sound very fast.

 

 

 

Kr0nle6IxcQ

[davej705]

Supercharged and a turbo

 

I want one!

[barneybrendan]

the key thing is to match the charger and turbo.

[Nodalmighty]

the key thing is to match the charger and turbo.

 

Typically you need a much bigger exhaust A/R when using a supercharger as it develops a lot more exhaust volume. Cam selection is a real bastard as Turbo and Supercharger require different profiles so a V-Tec engine would be ideal.

 

Twin charged H22 conversion anyone

[barneybrendan]

what i was thinking was twin charging the lexus v8 vvti.

[Nodalmighty]

what i was thinking was twin charging the lexus v8 vvti.

 

You must be a bloody Tetris champion if you reckon you can get that lot to fit in a JZ80 engine bay.

[barneybrendan]

You must be a bloody Tetris champion if you reckon you can get that lot to fit in a JZ80 engine bay.

 

looking at fearlesses car and routing around it all day im sure it would all squeeze in.

[Ian C]

Big singles dont have to be slow spooling if you have a good setup.

 

My 76 spools better than a lot of 67's in fact, compare my graph at the bottom to Ian C's 67mm.

 

http://2bartuning.com/dynographs/showgraph.php

 

That's right, humiliate me

 

In some defence of my poor old T67, my boost controller was set up badly (and has been for ages) so boost production always tailed off above about 0.8bar So just as yours starts getting into its stride at 4500rpm and seriously winding up the boost, mine loses interest and is bloody coasting up to 1.4bar I have graphs that show it takes about 1.5 to 2 seconds to get from 1 bar to 1.4 - shockingly pants. I think I've finally fixed that by turning off the autolearn feature and setting the feedback thingy to the right value. And other excuses

 

However, I am loving the fact your power line goes through the G of the word "Graph"

 

On subject, I would have said I've got nice shove that comes in at 3500rpm when I'm driving - I'll work through the gears doing 3500 to 4500 short shifts and riding a nice surge of torque each time. But that graph says I'm lying, I've only got 250ft/lbs tops. Interesting.

[Chris Wilson]

Given a free choice for a road car I like a big capacity lightweight N/A with as much compression as modern fuel and management will allow. In other words I like instant throttle response and lots and lots of area under the torque curve.

[Ian C]

Also on subject, I find the power delivery of a BPU sequential really quite nasty now. There is an artificial lag of 4000rpm in every gear, waiting for the second turbo to come in. The instanto surge of the first turbo is nice but feels gutless after the initial rush. This is, however, probably just a side effect of running a T67 for years

[Chris Wilson]

I dont know if he ever finished it, there was a thread on here years back, he refused to pay the members fee iirc and left.

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/jamie450x/twincharge-01.jpg

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/jamie450x/twincharge-00.jpg

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/jamie450x/arnoutsuperchargedgt42.jpg

 

 

I just don't get these projects that potentially cost a fortune in invested time and parts where the bracketry for the charger is made out of scrap angle iron and office chairs. If you don't have the machining facilities for something proper for God's sake pay someone who has! That stuff in the photos is a total abortion. Jeez, I took more trouble making my crank position sensor mount than he has with something that's got to hold a device consuming many horsepower under load. At least he seems to have some concept of correct belt wrap physics.

[barneybrendan]

I just don't get these projects that potentially cost a fortune in invested time and parts where the bracketry for the charger is made out of scrap angle iron and office chairs. If you don't have the machining facilities for something proper for God's sake pay someone who has! That stuff in the photos is a total abortion. Jeez, I took more trouble making my crank position sensor mount than he has with something that's got to hold a device consuming many horsepower under load. At least he seems to have some concept of correct belt wrap physics.

 

looking at the belt wrap,would that actually be enough coverage on the alternator

[Chris Wilson]

No, that's not very good, but it's nothing like as power hungry as the `charger. He could run a toothed belt for the w/pump and alternator, in which case the belt run he has shown should work OK.

[Stephendjb]

There is also this one, i dont know any specs on it though, and it dont sound very fast.

 

 

 

Kr0nle6IxcQ

550hp

8DOdn17Owss

[johnny g]

With option 4, Supercharger, why does it have to be crap top end? A good twin screw, like a Whipple/Lysholm provides good top end and so can Centrifugals, it's only the Roots style that blow ( ) in the top end?

 

I love the turbo rush in a road car, but I'm with big N/A or S/C power for a track car.

[barneybrendan]

No, that's not very good, but it's nothing like as power hungry as the `charger. He could run a toothed belt for the w/pump and alternator, in which case the belt run he has shown should work OK.

are you on about the likes of nichhelins gatorback belts.dont like the idea of using one belt,but that just me.just bring the charger out a bit and double crank pulley.

With option 4, Supercharger, why does it have to be crap top end? A good twin screw, like a Whipple/Lysholm provides good top end and so can Centrifugals, it's only the Roots style that blow ( ) in the top end?

 

I love the turbo rush in a road car, but I'm with big N/A or S/C power for a track car.

 

dont those chargers lack bottom end,whereas the likes of eaton are designed for low to mid range.im all for low end torque.

Edited September 28, 2010 by barneybrendan (see edit history)

[johnny g]

dont those chargers lack bottom end,whereas the likes of eaton are designed for low to mid range.im all for low end torque.

Centrifugals behave a bit like turbos, but the Twin Screw ones aren't like that really.

[Chris Wilson]

It has got double pulleys and two separate belts already, are we looking at the same photos? I mean the ones JamieP put up. By toothed belt for the alternator et cetera I mean like a timing belt. Not a good idea for superchargers though as the drive to those are much safer and more forgiving with some slippage in them.