apexi safc are they worth having

[mellonman]

All

i will be going hybrid shortly with cr turbos with bigger compressor

will i need to control the fueling ?

will the ecu compensate with the o2 sensor?

is the safc worth having is there any benifits

[shima60]

I'd go with the SAFC i have had one and its a good but basic bit of kit as long as you get yourself on a dyno and mapped right.

[mellonman]

are there better ones out there?

[shima60]

The emanage etc all control fueling its up to what you want really. most piggy back ecu's will do the same job

[Chris Wilson]

IMO if you really feel the need to fiddle with fuelling and timing due to mods beyond removing the cats you should save and get a proper stand alone ecu like a Syvecs, Motec or similar. Bear in mind if you have an automatic gearbox there may be issues both with what ecu's will work with it properly, and how far you can go before the torque it can stand becomes too much, or the control strategy is wrong for the power and torque curve. It's very important to decide where the project is going long term, in order not to waste money, or end up with a wiring loom like a bird's nest.

[mellonman]

IMO if you really feel the need to fiddle with fuelling and timing due to mods beyond removing the cats you should save and get a proper stand alone ecu like a Syvecs, Motec or similar. Bear in mind if you have an automatic gearbox there may be issues both with what ecu's will work with it properly, and how far you can go before the torque it can stand becomes too much, or the control strategy is wrong for the power and torque curve. It's very important to decide where the project is going long term, in order not to waste money, or end up with a wiring loom like a bird's nest.

 

i dont want to fiddle with fueling just not sure if i have too, to run the hybrids correctly

[Chris Wilson]

The stock ecu adds a LOT of excess fuel at high boost,, wide open throttle, you can trim it back if you have both cats out. They added so much extra fuel to keep the EGT's and cat temps down. Without cats you can safely run leaner, but whether a SAFC has enough resolution I don't know. Probably it's far from ideal. You need to have someone who knows exactly what they are doing trim the fuel. Hybrids will probably have a very different boost curve to stock turbos (not much point in them otherwise), so ideally you want to trim ignition and fuelling maps if you go for them. IMO very few hybrids have the longevity of stock ceramics. Rebuilt units never seem as relaible as brand new manufacturer made turbos.

[mellonman]

yes i under stand it would totally be better to have a piggy back or stand alone ecu but i am auto so the project cant go very far

i would love to have stock ones back but they cost so much and i see athread about toyota stopping makeing them so will only become more expensive as demand becomes greater

[Ian C]

The sAFC will only be of use if you have bigger injectors or have upped the static pressure, as it just trims the airflow signal.

 

If you need more fuel, you'd have to tell the stock ECU it was seeing more airflow than it actually was, so it increased injector duty cycle. This fails somewhat when you have to feed it maximum airflow before you're seeing maximum airflow, as you'll then run lean because the injectors are out of range.

 

If you don't need more fuel, what was the point of the hybrids

 

If you up the fuel pressure so that your injectors can fuel at full boost full revs, you'll need the sAFC to trim the entire map below that, and with two rows of 8 or 16 columns resolution, it's pretty lacking in ability for this.

 

You can get some results out of them, under some circumstances, but if it's not much more to get an E-Manage Blue I'd go for that every time.

[Shane]

The sAFC will only be of use if you have bigger injectors or have upped the static pressure, as it just trims the airflow signal.

 

If you need more fuel, you'd have to tell the stock ECU it was seeing more airflow than it actually was, so it increased injector duty cycle. This fails somewhat when you have to feed it maximum airflow before you're seeing maximum airflow, as you'll then run lean because the injectors are out of range.

 

If you don't need more fuel, what was the point of the hybrids

 

If you up the fuel pressure so that your injectors can fuel at full boost full revs, you'll need the sAFC to trim the entire map below that, and with two rows of 8 or 16 columns resolution, it's pretty lacking in ability for this.

 

You can get some results out of them, under some circumstances, but if it's not much more to get an E-Manage Blue I'd go for that every time.

 

Ian, what about the Apexi Neo, I guess that's pretty much the same then as it has only 16 rpm points? For me I am only running BPU on Jspec turbos and planned on getting a adjustable FPR and as I already have a safc2 I was thinking to install it so I could get it tweeked to its optimum. So am I right in thinking there is no point to this with stock turbos and injectors?

[mellonman]

get an E-Manage Blue I'd go for that every time.

 

these are pritty cheap have seen alot on ebay for £250 and they are from greddy traders

so what we are saying is stock ecu is out the window it can not cope with the hybrid turbos so if i got the ecu would the injectors be able to cope

 

what about the emanage ultimate? what makes this different to the blue?

do these adjust timing as well

Edited September 16, 2010 by mellonman
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