mawby Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I've been asked by a club member to post up a link to an online petition against this suggested tax change, so here it is. http://www.petitiononline.com/roadtax/petition.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I think it's a bit early for petitions. Some of the links on their homepage don't even work and it only mentions "an outline" of proposals. This can be seen as an unconstructive arguement as its a flinch reaction which isn't based upon facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyda Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 One might say it's based on the facts that have, so far, been made available. If they aren't sure about it, why release the details! Just my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4075490.stm ".... a Mori survey suggests 16% of drivers would refuse to have tracking devices fitted in their cars to allow the introduction of road-charging. The survey suggested 34% of respondents opposed the introduction of charges for driving on congested roads at peak times, compared with 47% who supported the measure." Where the hell did they conduct the survey, Central London among people who have no use for a motor vehicle because they can use public transport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyda Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Where the hell did they conduct the survey, Central London among people who have no use for a motor vehicle because they can use public transport? Probably somewhere like that! I'd imagine they asked the questions in such a way that it wasn't clear what they were asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Look East news did a poll and 6% were in favour, 94% were against, yay us! I've never seen such a result before, how much more of a "NO" do the fucko's want? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I welcome the idea, I wouldn't sign a petition against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Constant monitoring of your position at all times your vehicle is powered, is one hell of an extreme way of dealing with road charging. There are simple ways using existing fund raising technology. The simplest pay as you go measure is fuel pricing. If the addition charging could reduce congestion on major routes, then a sensible charge and specs would be effective. The majority of congestion is probably caused by bad driving, ie not adjusting driving for conditions. Does anyone remember the “Two Second Rule”. Far more relevant than speed in many accidents IMHO. Try it some time in traffic and see how many vehicles are two seconds apart. I would guess less than 10%. Specs could monitor this too. There is far more to this than just congestion charging, the authorities have lost the battle against, Tax, MOT and Insurance dodgers. The rest of us will pay with our civil liberties to catch these people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewizzy Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I personally hope that they do use this system. I carry lead around in the boot to aid rear end traction and inside the car to stop any harmful microwaves and aliens scanning my brain....... Also stop gps signals too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Personally I think the cretins that came up with this ridiculous, hand-holding big brother state of an idea should be dragged out into the sunlight and staked like the power-hungry blood feeding vampires they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 they need to introduce hefty fines and driving bans for lack of lane-discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I welcome the idea, I wouldn't sign a petition against it. You're OK with your speed being monitored? I guess you never break the speed limit then. I wouldn't 'sign' an on-line petition either because they are totally meaningless. Is anyone aware of a single case where an online petition has been taken notice of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I have no problem with road charging as proposed as long as they scrap duty on fuel - the way I see it is that I drive a car that drinks lots of the good stuff and doesn't cover many miles for each 80 litre fix, they can already track my location using the signals from my mobile and I dare say they could work out my average speed if they wanted to as well. I already have 2 GPS devices in the car, one works well, one doesn't... I suspect theirs could be 'disabled' easily unless technology moves on in the 5 years before the trials are expected to start. At the end of the day, like most similar schemes that have been suggested, I suspect most of the info we are being fed is hyped up by the media - the final result will probably be much more simple and based on the increasing number of numberplate recognition cameras in position. Police local to me have already started using CCTV cameras in conjunction with numberplate software to track criminals and stolen cars, adding a few more relatively low cost devices along the road network (using the blue pole network perhaps?) is going to be far easier to implement than fitting all cars with tracking devices, it will also be harder to cheat providing you aren't naughty with numberplates I just hope they are willing to survey a number of places, rural and urban in order to see if the system works for the majority rather than using the south east / London as the basis for how we all have access to public transport and could use it as an alternative when in reality a lot of us have no choice but to use cars. Fuel tax needs to go... I'm not sure what other alternatives exist beyond pay per mile schemes like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 yeah but would Fuel tax really *go* or would they just reduce it? I really doubt we would start seeing Petrol for 55p/litre. I hope we do, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 yeah but would Fuel tax really *go* or would they just reduce it? I suspect it will stay, slightly lower and then creep up to normal within a few years in conjunction with the road charging, more toll roads and a staged road tax system that ties in with the emissions test in the MOT to punish people who polute the world and kill baby rabbits. In the real world we won't save money and the government will make the same amount or more, it's just nice to think it might go our way once in a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 That's why I said I agree with it, the theory would be OK. No fuel tax, no road tax, just pay per mile, heavy road users pay a lot and people that don't drive very often don't pay as much. The problem is that we all know full well the price 'per mile' will be ludicrously expensive, even if you're on a deserted road in the middle of the night you'll likely be paying 30p a mile, and we know that fuel prices won't drop to anywhere near the level they should be (they'll drop to 75p 'to start with' and everyone'll say "Ooh that's a good start" and then they won't go down any more!!). Also I was basing it on the fact that they WON'T measure your speed, and I'd expect to have to sign something that says they won't register your speed in any way. Otherwise, just remove all road tax, speed cameras and everything, and increase fuel tax, that'll do the same job won't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 How can anybody think that an idea that lets the state follow you around by electronic means is a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Everyone thinks 'Big Brother' is a bad idea, and that the government knowing where you are 24/7 is for some reason a bad thing. Why? Until they start telling you what to do and where to go and how to think!!!! (more than they do already I mean!!), then what's the deal, they know where you are - so? I've got nothing to hide, I go to work, I go home, nothing bad happening - why would they give a shit what I do anyway!!! Like I said this idea would work, if they definitely didn't check anything other than how far you're travelling on the roads - problem is we all know the government are so greedy they'll start using it to catch speeders and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polus Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 A Mori survey has just allowed me to have a savings account with a 20% interest substitute bank account... (for every £5 I put in the goverment puts in £1 for a maximum of £125 a month for 18 months max). Obviously I took up the offer but where do these people get these ideas from ??? There research is just a waste of tax payers money. Im hard up at the moment but can afford to save this (which is going towards my supra refund) but I really dispair with the goverment and its pie-in-the-sky ideas... The people they are trying to target into saving more money cannot afford to save and this is why they dont... anyway I stray off the point. No scheme like this (like the new road tax one) has ever cut costs.... not one, and this is why I am against it.... The motorist is already raped for as much as possible, its just yet another nail in the coffin... Just my 2 peneth... BTW: Hello to all you supra owners Anyone from around cambridgeshire...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 The government is not going to do anything which reduces it's revenue, so expect to pay more. They already collect huge amounts of money from us by the simple means of taxing fuel and the road fund licence. To introduce road charging must increase their revenue, otherwise why would they do it? On top of all that is the sheer cost of implementing the system - it all has to be paid for and you can bet they won't do it by cutting back on the welfare state! A very important issue with GPS car tracking should be raised here. Anybody who enjoys driving quickly must realise the implications for measuring a car's speed in these proposals. Not only could a speeding offence be detected and an automatic ticket sent out, but your speed can also be limited by GPS control systems. A pilot scheme has been tried out in the UK already. Not only does it mean your car could be resticted to the speed limit at all times, but it will aslo allow the police to impose speed limits on roads because of weather or for any other reason. So, support road charging if you like, but it will cost you more and it will restrict your driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD3000GT Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 What I want to know is why don't you care? Its this sort of attitude that will eventually end up with humans actually being tagged and monitored by the government. I am happy in the knowledge that I can be somewhere without ANYONE knowing where I am ... Its almost that same thing that US prisoners wear on their ankle while they are on parole.. I would hate to think that the government knew where I was all the time, Its just none of their business ? Do you not think that your privacy is much more valuable to you? Its a question of freedom as well, This infringes VERY closely on invasive tracking and I would feel like one of those dogs on a retractable leashe, they could pull me in when ever they wanted to... Obviously its not the case that they would but I don't want to give them the ability to do it even if they wanted to? At the end of the day we have to realise we put these people in to power and we can just as easily throw them out, We have in fact as far as I'm concerned become a country of layovers, We just accept everything that is thrown at us. Its not very good really and we really could do more about it if we wanted to... Did you ever see what the French did to the speed cameras the government tried to install on their motorways? EVERY single one was removed within months of installation because of mass complaints and destruction of the units. We really need to become much more proactive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I'll 2nd that What I want to know is why don't you care? Its this sort of attitude that will eventually end up with humans actually being tagged and monitored by the government. I am happy in the knowledge that I can be somewhere without ANYONE knowing where I am ... Its almost that same thing that US prisoners wear on their ankle while they are on parole.. I would hate to think that the government knew where I was all the time, Its just none of their business ? Do you not think that your privacy is much more valuable to you? Its a question of freedom as well, This infringes VERY closely on invasive tracking and I would feel like one of those dogs on a retractable leashe, they could pull me in when ever they wanted to... Obviously its not the case that they would but I don't want to give them the ability to do it even if they wanted to? At the end of the day we have to realise we put these people in to power and we can just as easily throw them out, We have in fact as far as I'm concerned become a country of layovers, We just accept everything that is thrown at us. Its not very good really and we really could do more about it if we wanted to... Did you ever see what the French did to the speed cameras the government tried to install on their motorways? EVERY single one was removed within months of installation because of mass complaints and destruction of the units. We really need to become much more proactive! I'll 2nd that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polus Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 What I want to know is .........................................................Did you ever see what the French did to the speed cameras the government tried to install on their motorways? EVERY single one was removed within months of installation because of mass complaints and destruction of the units. We really need to become much more proactive! Ill third it ! Couldnt agree with you more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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