11/9/10 Burning of the Koran

[Guest «Supra»]

News update.

[Paul]

[Abz]

Great to see Paul & imi getting along!

 

2) Women not allowed to work or study at schools; you may have seen reports/ documentaries on this about Afghanistan. This is complete nonsense. In the Quran itself it is mentioned that a woman can get a job and IN FACT, unlike the man, she can spend every single penny on herself. The husband/ father cannot do that.

 

Tell me about it! I pay for all the bills & all her living costs & she spends all her money on clothes!

 

Though she does buy me stuff & loves the Supra

[Josh]

Ah I haven't missed the opportunity yet...

 

IBTL

[Paul]

Great to see Paul & imi getting along!

 

As always Life would be so boring if we all agreed

[imi]

Islam gives women far too many rights.......best to keep some info under the cushion.....

[Septic]

Nearly all Muslims are good peaceful people,of this I have no doubt

 

But isn't it time for more and more of them to not only condemn the terrorists but also rat them out of there mosques.That would help stop retards like this pastor claiming all Muslims are the devil etc etc

 

I know what you are trying to say but its not as simple as that.

 

Firstly, many normal Muslims disassociate themselves with the terrorists as much as normal non-muslims do so it would seem odd or insulting that they have to spell out to everyone that what the terrorists are doing is wrong. A basic knowledge of the Quran would confirm that Islam is a religion of peace.

 

In regards to ratting out wannabe terrorists; I've never actually met anyone in my life that I have thought would be a potential terrorist otherwise I would have reported them or tried to educate them myself. Even the Taliban folk I mention above (the ones I came across), they just seemed to have a disdain for western culture but never anything to suggest they would commit acts of terrorism.

 

If the people who committed the 9/11 attacks were brought before us, we Muslims would kick the living $h@7 out of them more than anyone else for all this b.s we all have had to go through. Then again, saying that, if I met George Bush or the Israeli P.M, I have a feeling my legal license would be revoked.

Please just think, think and think again. Don't get swept up in mob rule and sensationalist media headlines.

[Abz]

Terry Jones said he was calling off the event after the group behind a planned Islamic centre near Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.

 

But the cultural centre's organisers said they had no plans to move it.

 

C'mon make up your mind!

[Digsy]

It's been called off.......what should we argue about now......

 

How about these?

 

Basic principle of science - Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

 

I think that's energy, not matter. But even that's wrong.

 

Its like saying all the Germans are bad, because of Hitler.

 

Don't you think the Austrians got off lightly with that one?

 

On a more serious note regarding the how long it might take the American scars from 9/11 to heal, wasn't 2010 the first year that America sent a representative to the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing? That was 65 years ago...

[Josh]

Terry Jones said he was calling off the event after the group behind a planned Islamic centre near Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.

 

But the cultural centre's organisers said they had no plans to move it.

 

I didn't think it was to do with the "Islamic Cultural Centre" by "Ground Zero" but to teach the "Muslim extremists" a lesson.

 

Maybe it was just a publicity stunt.

[Septic]

How about these?

 

 

 

I think that's energy, not matter. But even that's wrong.

 

 

 

Don't you think the Austrians got off lightly with that one?

 

On a more serious note regarding the how long it might take the American scars from 9/11 to heal, wasn't 2010 the first year that America sent a representative to the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing? That was 65 years ago...

 

Good point.

 

I believe the events 9/11 have forever changed the perception of Islam in the West. I hope i don't get in trouble for saying this but, one American lad on Xbox Live said something that I keep remembering; "Muslims are like the new Jews and n1**3rs". Humanity doesn't seem to have learned its lesson from the past.

[davej705]

I know what you are trying to say but its not as simple as that.

 

Firstly, many normal Muslims disassociate themselves with the terrorists as much as normal non-muslims do so it would seem odd or insulting that they have to spell out to everyone that what the terrorists are doing is wrong. A basic knowledge of the Quran would confirm that Islam is a religion of peace.

 

In regards to ratting out wannabe terrorists; I've never actually met anyone in my life that I have thought would be a potential terrorist otherwise I would have reported them or tried to educate them myself. Even the Taliban folk I mention above (the ones I came across), they just seemed to have a disdain for western culture but never anything to suggest they would commit acts of terrorism.

 

If the people who committed the 9/11 attacks were brought before us, we Muslims would kick the living $h@7 out of them more than anyone else for all this b.s we all have had to go through. Then again, saying that, if I met George Bush or the Israeli P.M, I have a feeling my legal license would be revoked.

Please just think, think and think again. Don't get swept up in mob rule and sensationalist media headlines.

 

I don't buy into racist views,media headlines and mob rule. I, like you it seems, look at all the facts before making my mind up about anything.

 

However, I cannot believe that more would be terrorists could not have been exposed to the authorities. I have never read the Qu'ran, being atheist, but from what i hear from a Muslim friend is that if a muslim knew of a terrorist plot they would have an obligation to do something to prevent it... or maybe thats just his interpretation of this book!

 

Just like to add that i cant stand racism and would like to think that one day everyone will get along, just can't really see it the way things are going:(

[Septic]

Yes, in Islam you have a positive duty to report on anything that you know would cause harm to others.

 

Interestingly, here in the UK we don't have a positive duty to act so for example, if you see a person drowning, you don't have to help them unless you owe them a duty of care.

 

I wonder how that applies to a situation where someone knows about a terrorist and an imminent terror attack and doesnt so anything about it? I'm sure they would be prosecuted for something under the Anti- Terror laws.

[davej705]

Yes, in Islam you have a positive duty to report on anything that you know would cause harm to others.

 

Interestingly, here in the UK we don't have a positive duty to act so for example, if you see a person drowning, you don't have to help them unless you owe them a duty of care.

 

I wonder how that applies to a situation where someone knows about a terrorist and an imminent terror attack and doesnt so anything about it? I'm sure they would be prosecuted for something under the Anti- Terror laws.

 

yeah and rightly so, everyone has a moral duty to stop these kind of terrorist acts if they have a chance to.

[mobsta_01]

so whats the difference between the Muslims burning a USA flag or a british flag, to burning a book??

 

Because a flag is a symbol and the Qoran is the word of God.

 

A step to far would be trying to build a fucking mosque at ground zero but wait there doing it!

Now usualy i dont get involved in threads like this due to my views of some ethic cultures but honestly how the fuck can they allow such a thing to be built in that location of all places.

 

They aren’t building it on ground zero. It’s about three blocks away. Besides there’s loads of mosques in New York. They don’t bother anyone.

[Harry Sachs]

Because a flag is a symbol and the Qoran is the word of God.

 

 

 

They aren’t building it on ground zero. It’s about three blocks away. Besides there’s loads of mosques in New York. They don’t bother anyone.

 

 

Then why the fook do they need to build another one?

[Abz]

Then why the fook do they need to build another one?

They aren't if you bother to read through the rest of the posts

[jim]

Yes, in Islam you have a positive duty to report on anything that you know would cause harm to others.

 

Interestingly, here in the UK we don't have a positive duty to act so for example, if you see a person drowning, you don't have to help them unless you owe them a duty of care.

 

I wonder how that applies to a situation where someone knows about a terrorist and an imminent terror attack and doesnt so anything about it? I'm sure they would be prosecuted for something under the Anti- Terror laws.

 

Depends where you're from I suppose, in some places not that far away they end up elected leaders of the country.

[JustGav]

wasn't 2010 the first year that America sent a representative to the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing? That was 65 years ago...

And people would argue that was war, but it still constitutes one of the worst atrocities in my mind, and I'm a pro nuclear power supporter, not pro weapons.

 

would like to think that one day everyone will get along, just can't really see it the way things are going:(

 

Nope, and that is a complete shame, sadly there aren't sufficient altruistic people, and those of us that are more inclined that way will be by sheer human nature pushed down by the capitalist nature that the world is.

[j_jza80]

And people would argue that was war, but it still constitutes one of the worst atrocities in my mind, and I'm a pro nuclear power supporter, not pro weapons.

 

I think that given the circumstances, and the very limited information they had on the effects of Nuclear weapons, the reasoning behind Hiroshima and Nagasaki was acceptable at the time. (a very desperate time)

 

Around 50,000 Americans alone had been killed in the Pacific conflict alone upto those attacks. America had this new, terrible technology that would effectively end the war in a very short period of time, and save god knows how many American lives. Had they known about the extent of the Fallout and longetivity of radiation poisoning they may have chosen a different path. However, if the Japanese had known that America would develop these weapons, would they have attacked without provocation in the first place?

 

It's very easy for us to look back on it now and condemn what was done, but i'm sure if it was our close friends and family dying then our perspectives may be somewhat different.

[JustGav]

I think that given the circumstances, and the very limited information they had on the effects of Nuclear weapons, the reasoning behind Hiroshima and Nagasaki was acceptable at the time.

Limited information? The manhattan project pretty much understood what was going to happen. Trinity proved that much. Hiroshima was pretty much a copy of the original trinity which they had used already. Nagasaki was the new design,

 

Around 50,000 Americans alone had been killed in the Pacific conflict alone upto those attacks. America had this new, terrible technology that would effectively end the war in a very short period of time, and save god knows how many American lives. Had they known about the extent of the Fallout and longetivity of radiation poisoning they may have chosen a different path. However, if the Japanese had known that America would develop these weapons, would they have attacked without provocation in the first place?

 

It's very easy for us to look back on it now and condemn what was done,

 

50-000 is a large number yes, but is wiping out 200 000 fair? I would assume as I don't know but those 50000 were soliders and actively directly involved in the war effort, where as the a large proportion of the 200 000 were civilians including children.

 

I'm not by any means defending the Japanese or the Americans, as I don't believe war solves anything, but I do think the american's sometimes are too controlling in world affairs. Iran being an example staying with the nuclear theme. Obviously I don't agree with every loony having nuclear weapons, but the americans (and subsequently the british / europe) attempt to dictate who and who may not have nuclear power which is a bit rich coming from the bunch who bombed the crap out of the nevada proving grounds and pretty much everywhere else that the USSR didn't.

[far]

I did listen to a debate on the radio and the muslim guy was saying how the Koran only preaches peace, he read a few sections out and that would seem so.

 

 

2 people reading the same thing can interpret it in completley different ways. Some people just see bad in everything and find it in the most unusual of places.

 

 

Actually there are several verses of the القرآن الكريم (Qu'ran)that detail killing non believers/Pagans (infidels), 'seek them out and slay them wherever you catch them' (shortened version) - However I strongly believe a small cross section of muslims who are ignorant/uneducated in the proper context of the verses have taken this quite literally in modern day times, what they don't consider is that the book was written a long time ago and much of this content is based on rules of engagement in war when pagans were ripping through muslim villages, burning down peoples houses and raping women and killing children, equally the old testament also has verses of bestowing violence on non believers. It should also be noted that the same verses also advise of housing and granting asylum to pagans who repent - a prisoners of war rule if you like - there is however NOWHERE in the Quran that talks about slaughtering non-combatants indiscriminately or murder, something these young lads nowadays seem to have started doing as some kind of payback for their own causes

[JustGav]

something these young lads nowadays seem to have started doing as some kind of payback for their own causes

 

Extremists by their nature will identify a cause to suit their goals, and not vice versa, I reckon anyway.

[Abz]

Extremists by their nature will identify a cause to suit their goals, and not vice versa, I reckon anyway.

I reckon you are right Gav.

[j_jza80]

Limited information? The manhattan project pretty much understood what was going to happen. Trinity proved that much. Hiroshima was pretty much a copy of the original trinity which they had used already. Nagasaki was the new design,

 

I meant on the lasting effects of Nuclear radiation, that has killed and affected many hundreds after.

 

 

50-000 is a large number yes, but is wiping out 200 000 fair? I would assume as I don't know but those 50000 were soliders and actively directly involved in the war effort, where as the a large proportion of the 200 000 were civilians including children.

 

Not fair, no. But at what point does the ratio of deaths become fair? I don't necessarily agree with what was done, but neither will I condemn them for it.

Just out of interest, how would you suggest the Allies ended the war? Japan had already proven themselves to be untrustworthy during diplomacy, and the Japanese troops had proven that they were willing to sacrifice themselves to kill allied soldiers.

 

I'm not by any means defending the Japanese or the Americans, as I don't believe war solves anything, but I do think the american's sometimes are too controlling in world affairs. Iran being an example staying with the nuclear theme. Obviously I don't agree with every loony having nuclear weapons, but the americans (and subsequently the british / europe) attempt to dictate who and who may not have nuclear power which is a bit rich coming from the bunch who bombed the crap out of the nevada proving grounds and pretty much everywhere else that the USSR didn't.

 

I agree completely. Everyone who can afford to safely maintain Nuclear energy should be allowed it, however I also think that these facilities should have to be listed, and completely open to inspection at any time. Iran do not allow inspectors consistent access to their facilities, and therefore (IMO) they should not be allowed it.