That cat didn't get the worst of it...

[Purity14]

Animals are here for our consumption, clothing, enslaving and to ensure the balance of our ecosystem.

 

I dont agree that they should be hurt maimed or killed for fun, unless you are shooting rabbits or catching fish to eat them.

[nevins]

So if she happily slit their throats and ate them it would be OK?

 

So where did I say any thing along those lines, If you had not noticed, I am not to happy about this being done to the puppies. In my opinion the parents of that creature should have had an abortion before the bitch took her 1st breath. People like her are skum that should not be allowed to walk around the planet.

[Attero]

I'm not going to lie... I think everyone is flawed with their opinions. On all possible sides, there are flaws.

[Purity14]

On all possible sides, there are flaws.

 

There are four paws, on all sides iirc, id have to watch again.

[Gaz6002]

Well it makes a change from arguing about religion.

[Thorin]

How many "vegetarians/vegans", have leather jackets/shoes/belts/seats/steering wheels?

How many have carpets made from wool?

How many drink wine without realising most are made with isinglass?

How many eat chocolate/sweets containing gelatin?

How many drive cars polluting the atmosphere and helping to kill off animals?

How many own products that were made in some third world country where donkeys were beaten to death dragging timber/materials in order to make said product?

 

I could go on all day. By the way, it's nice up here in my ivory tower.

[Mike]

I enjoy eating meat, i dont enjoy killing the animals, big difference.

 

This for me is the biggest hypocritical point... if I were to eat meat, I would want to kill it myself (the Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall approach ). I don't care what animal it is, I'm not bothered. The attitude of just watching it roll up on your plate and pretending it came out of a plastic carton from the supermarket is the most blinkered view to have.

 

If you can't face how that ham sandwich came to be, how can you have an opinion on this random nutter throwing puppies into a river - you aid in killing stuff all the time, but you act like it's not happening? eh?

[Mike]

Well it makes a change from arguing about religion.

 

We've touched on Halal.. the night is young

[Mike]

How many drive cars polluting the atmosphere and helping to kill off animals?

 

Tenuous

[Gaz6002]

We've touched on Halal.. the night is young

 

In that case...

 

Tenuous

 

Maybe, but this is from one of you lot:

 

car tyres, and many plastics (including those used on computers) use stearic acid in their manufacture (Something I only found out since coming here, so you aren't the only one). It also turns up in crayons and the snow used in the "Narnia" film. So no movies for the "100%-ers"? It goes on - the list of products containing animal based "ingredients" is overwhelming, and they are almost impossible to avoid.

 

http://www.vegsoc.org.au/forum_messages.asp?Thread_ID=3454&Topic_ID=1

 

Who's the hippo now?

[nevins]

When it comes down to it , who cares where food comes from in the end of the day, but when it comes down to animal cruelty, there is no excuse for it.

[Mike]

Who's the hippo now?

 

[tbourner]

We've touched on Halal.. the night is young

What about HITLER!!!

 

If you can't face how that ham sandwich came to be, how can you have an opinion on this random nutter throwing puppies into a river - you aid in killing stuff all the time, but you act like it's not happening? eh?

I don't understand what any of this anti-omnivore stuff has got to do with animal cruelty! Meat for food isn't treated cruelly, it's raised without pain and then stunned before being chopped up, it's hardly drowning to death and then being left to rot! There's a whole world of difference between the two.

[AndrewOW]

There's no such thing as a vegan. Just vege-tables.

[Thorin]

What about HITLER!!!

 

Godwin's.

[Mike]

When it comes down to it , who cares where food comes from in the end of the day, but when it comes down to animal cruelty, there is no excuse for it.

 

Yes, but my point is.... please just acknowledge that you eat dead animals all the time, and one day the contents of your ham sandwich was squeaking and running around and being cute.

 

I think we can all agree that this random nutter does indeed need locking away for a very long time, but please don't be thinking you're all whiter than white... you're not, you kill stuff too (if behind the comfort of your local Supermarket)

[Gaz6002]

please don't be thinking you're all whiter than white... you're not, you kill stuff too (if behind the comfort of your local Supermarket)

 

Surely you mean 'we'?

[Matt H]

but please don't be thinking you're all whiter than white... you're not, you kill stuff too

 

Very true. But there's a scale to consider too. Killing a puppy by throwing it in the river is very bad, buying a burger that has been slaughter in a humane (hopefully) way to eat is not so bad

[Septic]

Veganism is a religion in itself! RedM and Mike sound like my local Jehovas Witnesses lol.

 

You lot and your wasted incisors.

 

BTW I do respect you guys for not eating meat on the principle of welfare for animals. I just don't agree with your views (and not just because I like meat). You guys sound terribly preachy and judgmental (and a tad bit condescending) but I guess you're entitled to your opinion and it is a result of your strong belief in it.

 

But no, we are not hypocrites if we find animal cruelty abhorrent yet are meat eaters at the same time.

[Snooze]

Meat for food isn't treated cruelly, it's raised without pain and then stunned before being chopped up, it's hardly drowning to death and then being left to rot! There's a whole world of difference between the two.

 

I think this is the heart of the debate.

 

I do NOT believe there is a "whole world of difference between the two". If you really believe that "meat for food isn't treated cruelly", then I, like Mike and RedM (despite me actually coming from the other direction!) think you are deluding yourself.

 

If you choose to delude yourself to settle your own conscience, I don't really mind, but I personally think doing so and then condemning anyone else who is cruel to animals is hypocritical.

[Tricky-Ricky]

That's just ridiculous!

 

That doesn't make any sense?

 

If you're a tax payer of course you have a right to criticise the government?

 

 

Perhaps a bad example, just trying to point out the extent of the hypocrisy in all the arguments about this subject;)

 

Maybe this thread should be renamed;)

[Septic]

I think this is the heart of the debate.

 

I do NOT believe there is a "whole world of difference between the two". If you really believe that "meat for food isn't treated cruelly", then I, like Mike and RedM (despite me actually coming from the other direction!) think you are deluding yourself.

 

If you choose to delude yourself to settle your own conscience, I don't really mind, but I personally think doing so and then condemning anyone else who is cruel to animals is hypocritical.

 

The question of what is cruel and what isn't cruel is subjective though. The determining factor in an argument such as this is the question of pain. Slitting the throat for example, renders the animal unable to feel pain because the blood vessels in the neck are severed and so is supply to the nerves (which are responsible for the sensation fo pain).

 

The kicking and writhing of the animal is a result of the sudden cut-off of blood supply to those requisite parts of the body (so Purity, if you were trying to imply something there- you fail ).

[Snooze]

The question of what is cruel and what isn't cruel is subjective though. The determining factor in an argument such as this is the question of pain.

 

Interesting point about subjectivity. I do agree, I just wonder if focusing purely on the actual death (severing of the neck vs. throwing in a river) matters that much?

What about the pain/incarceration suffered during an animal's life? What about the fact that the animals life is being cut short (regardless of method)? Surely these things have to be taken into consideration too?

 

For example, what about chicken farming vs fox hunting?

• during life, the (battery) chickens are kept in uncomfortable conditions vs. the fox, which runs free
  
• both animals lives are cut short (not sure of the comparative length of life)
  
• chicken is killed "humanely", fox is scared and hunted
  

To me, it is very hard to say which of these is crueller than the other - but most people seem to (indirectly) condone the chicken farming but condemn the fox hunting, because they only consider the actual killing of the animal.

[MaveriK]

This for me is the biggest hypocritical point... if I were to eat meat, I would want to kill it myself (the Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall approach ). I don't care what animal it is, I'm not bothered. The attitude of just watching it roll up on your plate and pretending it came out of a plastic carton from the supermarket is the most blinkered view to have.

 

If you can't face how that ham sandwich came to be, how can you have an opinion on this random nutter throwing puppies into a river - you aid in killing stuff all the time, but you act like it's not happening? eh?

 

Why, i dont think the pixies wave their magic wand and POP, a nice lush medium rare rump steak appears on my plate, quite frankly your point is insulting.

 

Lets all go out and go hand to hand wing with a viscious beak wielding chicken and slaughter it for food. In THIS context does it matter who does the deed, the animal still dies for food?

 

I do on the other hand think the person in the clip is killing for fun or whatever you want to call it and that is just plain wrong. If you vegans want to start waving your hands around and claim that its the same as killing for food then carry on.

 

Let me just grab a shot gun and try and find something that doesnt cast a shadow for dinner, would that be ok?

[James]

No motorway incidents with her yet? Shame.