'A degree is the passport to a successful career'

[TTRickeh]

From a banking sector a degree makes a MASSIVE difference.

 

Entry level oxbridge candidates - £50-80k first year salary

 

I am struggling to get any close to that top end salary after 7 years sector experience with a degree from a top 10 uni.

 

In banking - yes it makes a world of difference.

 

What is it you're doing in banking? I'm just about to finish my MSc Finance & Investment Management.

[Rob]

I thought it was great, but that was in the late '80s. All fees paid for by the Local Education Authority, student grant to piss up the wall, 2-3 hours work a day. It was a big shock when I got a job in London on my first year out, but I was earning more than my older brother was after his 6 years in work.

[supra_aero]

What is it you're doing in banking? I'm just about to finish my MSc Finance & Investment Management.

 

I work in research supporting research analysts. Had I gone in as either;

 

1) trader

2) sales person

3) research analyst

4) investment banker

 

You'd make an absolute packet in 5 years (easy 100-125k per year min. after 5 years).

 

I made the wrong choice initially - I'll get there just takes me a lot longer now.

 

That said you'd need an extremely good educational background to get in intially. And I mean best of the best - top 100 of the world that hiring year.

[evinX]

I always had a feeling that uni wouldnt get me far after meeting lots of people at factory works paying of debts, a family member who had a degree in maths iirc and turned into a missionary!!!! !!!, i hear so many people get into debts, cant get the jobs they trained for and just had a great time getting drunk, drugged and laid. Wow thats great:D NOT.

[TTRickeh]

I work in research supporting research analysts. Had I gone in as either;

 

1) trader

2) sales person

3) research analyst

4) investment banker

 

You'd make an absolute packet in 5 years (easy 100-125k per year min. after 5 years).

 

I made the wrong choice initially - I'll get there just takes me a lot longer now.

 

That said you'd need an extremely good educational background to get in intially. And I mean best of the best - top 100 of the world that hiring year.

 

Then you'll be loitering around the Ferrari owners club off topic forums?

 

Just applied for a Junior graduate level quant analyst position and didn't even make the shortlist. Bugger.

[supra_aero]

My thoughts on it is if you didnt go to a top 10 world uni studing a well respected subject getting a good degree. Its debatable if it'll be worthwhile.

 

If you had gone to Harvard/Yale/Oxford/Cambridge/LSE etc. inevitably you can really become anything you'd ever dreamed of. From president of the USA to a CEO of a FTSE 100 bank. You really are fast tracked at top graduate firms, no question or debate at all about that.

[supra_aero]

Then you'll be loitering around the Ferrari owners club off topic forums?

 

Just applied for a Junior graduate level quant analyst position and didn't even make the shortlist. Bugger.

 

As I say no offence to anyone but if you didn't go to oxbridge/harvard etc., and you are dreaming of 80k a year first job. Realistically just forget it unless you are exceptionally gifted and can prove it on your application form.

 

Unfortunately that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

And yes know many ferrari/lambo owners at work - and they are annoyingly not really car enthusiasts just buy them because they can.

[Bobbeh]

Most blue chip companies wont even consider people without a degree these days, and the standards are forever rising... That's not to say people with experience aren't good enough, its just a 2:1 degree seems to be the benchmark for many hi-tech companies.. especially for new/graduate/young peoples positions.

 

Of course having a good education and work experience is a bonus

[caseys]

I'd agree with Gav, Homer and Super_aero here.

 

In IT anything but entry level jobs will want hard experience. You're not going to land in a well paid job in The field with a degree.

 

Banking sector is still an old boys type club and yes degrees from LSE and Oxford/cambs/imperial have a lot of clout to get you in. Otherwise it's hard to get a toe in and work your way up sadly

 

Other things like dream jobs of working at CERN or medical/scientific r&d or engineering:architecture would indeed require degrees.

 

I think actually if I won the lottery I'd go back and do a degree in science/maths or engineering in fact, purely because I like the academic world (but never went to uni)

[TTRickeh]

As I say no offence to anyone but if you didn't go to oxbridge/harvard etc., and you are dreaming of 80k a year first job. Realistically just forget it unless you are exceptionally gifted and can prove it on your application form.

 

Unfortunately that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

And yes know many ferrari/lambo owners at work - and they are annoyingly not really car enthusiasts just buy them because they can.

 

Wasn't expecting to get any of the top flight jobs, but i'll apply anyway just for shits and giggles

[Tannhauser]

Not aimed at you Tannhauser, I know you're better than me, you keep telling me so

 

I think you'll find that's you projecting your inverse snobbery onto me

 

Interesting how you'd base that point on financial incentives yet close by saying you'd have done it regardless. What did you gain from it in a social sense that couldn't be distilled from having an active and lively circle of friends?

 

I answered on the basis of remuneration because the thread was about careers, so I was attempting to put in a bit of published research (albeit from memory) to complement all the anecdotal comments.

 

With regards to what it offered me - potted biography. I'm from West Bromwich - not exactly a cultural hotbed. Most of the people I grew up with were salt-of-the-earth working class types. My Dad left school at 14, Mum at 16. I went to uni at 19 as a Tory atheist who hadn't met anyone outside of the Midlands.

 

As a kid, I had a lot of curiosity in a lot of subjects. I started on this weird, incredibly broad course my uni ran. My first two essays at Uni were on Homer's Odyssey and Viking Expansion in the 9th century! I was also doing courses in Philosophy and Psychology, going to lectures on everything from French Literature to economic theory. That was heaven to me.

 

At the same time, I was meeting people from all over the country, and spent most of my time with people from Yorkshire and Lancashire. I encountered dyed-in-the-wool socialists, Christians that could run rings round me in arguments, rich kids, foreign students and so on. Everyday,I was thrashing out arguments with people who were at least as clever as I was, and usually more so.

 

When I went back home, the guys that stayed at home were still sitting in the same seats in the same pub, having the same conversations as they were before. I'm not at all saying that's how it is for everyone, or that uni is the holy path to enlightenment, but that was my experience, in my town, with my particular group of friends.

 

I worked hard at uni, and had a wild old time, but first and foremost it was a learning experience for me, at a time in my life when I was ravenous for new knowledge. To be truthful, it saddens me that it's judged in terms of whether it's a career step or not. I think we are put on this planet to learn and understand, and without that you might as well be a cat. For me, uni was something to help me along that path.

 

Apologies for the long reply.

[neo2810]

Aw crap... Now you've made me want to be a cat...

[Tannhauser]

But engineering is difficult, that's why so many do psychology,

 

That's quite a limited perspective. Most subjects, including Psychology, can get as challenging as you like. My first degree is Biology and Psychology,with Philosophy of Science and Astronomy. Although Biology is considered the 'hard' option, for me, Psychology was consistently intellectually tougher. It also taught me more about research methods than I ever got from Biology.

 

To take another example, techy types often dismiss subjects like English lit. This tells you that very few of them have tried to get to grips with the likes of Jacques Derrida.

[TLicense]

As I said I went the old fashioned route into engineering, I was made redundant last August and got a relevent role withing a few weeks, since then I've got people knocking my door down for my experience, there really seems to be a shortage of experience and skills in my line of work now, something the degree boys can't compete against

 

What is it that you actually do Paul?

[Thorin]

I always said that if I'd have just gone straight into a job after leaving college that three years of real world experience would have done just as much for my career as my degree.

 

Personally, it was the single most formative experience in my life. Knowing what I know now, I would go even if I ended up poorer.

 

[supra_aero]

Funny because I actually disagree with Thorin and Tannhauser.

 

Although I see financially it can make a big difference. Intellectually I thought it was a total utter waste of time.

 

Economics taught at uni, ironically very little relevance in the city. Why thus is it so highly respected? I dont have a clue.

 

I also thought the students on the whole who were at least at my course and university were very snobby, stuck up brats who I generally couldn't stand. Not to mention they'd cheat at any opportunity to get the highest grades, hiding key texts in the library and so on.

 

Lecturers often forced their opinions on to their students, regardless if you agreed or disagreed with them. And unfortunately in subjective subjects like economics and the arts - if your opinions differ from the lecturers they will mark you down.

 

My advice is to do an empirical science like maths or physics where you can't get screwed over either.

 

The living away from home was the best experience. The university part was a waste of time in my opinion.

[Attero]

The problem is these days is that nobody has got the passion to do what they are doing. They are doing it either because they think it's "the money" or they just don't have a clue what they want to do.

 

So they go and do a degree in uni, and come out with just a degree. They don't come out with the enjoyment, passion and ambition for success.

 

Unfortunately, this is the case with most people I know personally.

 

So with that said, I never joined uni. Instead I built up my experience over the years. Got myself some freelance work since I was in my early teens. Created a small portfolio at the time and then got myself a good job.

 

And if it's a passion of yours... you can succeed by creating your own business and eventually, you can be the bum that everyone else was when you were younger while earning the big dime.

[Thorin]

Funny because I actually disagree with Thorin and Tannhauser.

 

The you're plainly wrong. Move along, move along...

 

 

[The Raven]

I would have alook at the money men here.

 

Most of them are in the building trade.

[Charlotte]

I didn't go to university but I really wish I had done.

 

At the time I was going through a rebellious stage in my life and I didn't really have any direction.

 

I have subsequently acheived what I could have done at uni and more but still, I feel like I missed out on the experience of it all.

 

I already lived away from home when I was 16 so it's not that whole 'life experience' thing. It's just a 'been there done that' kind of thing.

 

I do think though that if you don't have a degree it's a lot harder to change careers later in life. For example there are lots of add on course (PGCE for teaching) that you can do with any degree - which are not available for someone without a degree.

 

If you get to 30 and decide on a complete career change it's either, back into education ie uni or starting again at the very bottom of the ladder on a rubbish wage.

[marc_p]

I for one am incredibly happy that I did not go to uni.

 

I did my A-Levels and came out of school at 18, all of my school freinds were thinking I was crazy not to do uni, anyway I got a job in a company dealing with financial software at 18 and I was just doing some basic IT support work, by the time I was 19 I was doing marketing for the company and found myself in a job that about 3 of my freinds who went to uni wanted to do when they graduated, I then pottered along with that job until I realised that Marketing didn't offer the pay that I wanted so I moved around a few jobs until I changed company and found myself at the company I am currently working at(Arrow), it's a very large company with incredible room for growth and I am now doing a consultant-esque job, and intend to move up to a full consultancy role in the near future, most of my freinds left Uni last year, I am currently earning more than double of what they are all on and my salary is expected to increase a lot faster than them.

 

So in summary, yes they may have had 3 years of partying but now we are all around 22 I am the one with the good paying job, I am the one with the fancy cars and I am the one that's now really enjoying life whilst there scraping by.

[Tannhauser]

Funny because I actually disagree with Thorin and Tannhauser.

 

Although I see financially it can make a big difference. Intellectually I thought it was a total utter waste of time.

 

Economics taught at uni, ironically very little relevance in the city. Why thus is it so highly respected? I dont have a clue.

 

I also thought the students on the whole who were at least at my course and university were very snobby, stuck up brats who I generally couldn't stand. Not to mention they'd cheat at any opportunity to get the highest grades, hiding key texts in the library and so on.

 

Lecturers often forced their opinions on to their students, regardless if you agreed or disagreed with them. And unfortunately in subjective subjects like economics and the arts - if your opinions differ from the lecturers they will mark you down.

 

My advice is to do an empirical science like maths or physics where you can't get screwed over either.

 

The living away from home was the best experience. The university part was a waste of time in my opinion.

 

What a dreadful shame that you found it a waste of time. That's a real pity. You sound incredibly bitter about the whole thing.

 

I definitely went there with exactly the same opinions about students that you espouse. I spent a lot of my first year cursing about 'bloody students'. But they aren't a homogenous group, and for every blue-blooded Hooray Henry, I did manage to find someone I liked.

 

I'm amazed at your perception of the teaching there. My experience is that it's everything to do with critical thinking and debate. Maybe there's a difference between marking someone down based on opinion and marking them down because their contrary opinion is ill informed or mistaken. For example, if I write an essay on Animal Farm and claim there are no allegorical elements, and a lecturer in literature gives me 26%, that mark is not only because I'm expressing a contrary opinion to his, but also because my analysis is lacking.

 

The dichotomy that you've suggested between maths and science and 'subjective' subjects is a false one. Any subject with academic rigour presents arguments and hypotheses based on evidence, whether its German literature or politics. The more 'empirical' subjects including science, are still human inventions and still subject to those blasted opinions.

[supra_aero]

What a dreadful shame that you found it a waste of time. That's a real pity. You sound incredibly bitter about the whole thing.

 

I definitely went there with exactly the same opinions about students that you espouse. I spent a lot of my first year cursing about 'bloody students'. But they aren't a homogenous group, and for every blue-blooded Hooray Henry, I did manage to find someone I liked.

 

I'm amazed at your perception of the teaching there. My experience is that it's everything to do with critical thinking and debate. Maybe there's a difference between marking someone down based on opinion and marking them down because their contrary opinion is ill informed or mistaken. For example, if I write an essay on Animal Farm and claim there are no allegorical elements, and a lecturer in literature gives me 26%, that mark is not only because I'm expressing a contrary opinion to his, but also because my analysis is lacking.

 

The dichotomy that you've suggested between maths and science and 'subjective' subjects is a false one. Any subject with academic rigour presents arguments and hypotheses based on evidence, whether its German literature or politics. The more 'empirical' subjects including science, are still human inventions and still subject to those blasted opinions.

 

I understand what you are saying. I think the issue here or at least with me was me going to Bath, which is a particularly upmarket area (attracts a certain type of student). And then studying economics just brought the snobby kids who didn't quite have the gift to go to Oxbridge thus went to Bath, with rich daddies and mummies etc. etc.

 

Very very pretentious bunch on my course. And alot of lecturers are ex-bankers so they are likewise as bad as some of the students.

 

Now not all of them were, but unfortunately their arrogance and aparthied nature spoilt the experience for me entirely. I often remembered arguing with lecturers in class when they were blatantly wrong in their opinions but it was still a case of "I'm the lecturer, thus I must be right" mantra.

 

Your last point is interesting and although true, it is harder to argue with science with evidence to back up a theory, than an opinionated view of what could "stimulate an economy" for example.

[supra_aero]

And by the way I haven't even scratched the surface of how bad some of these blood sucking backstabbing students would go to get a good grade. Sleeping with the lecturers happened in my course amongst other things.

 

Alot of these students would do anything they can to ensure they come out on top and get that banking job they always wanted.

[Bobbeh]

^ Probably true..(Thorin) but it wont help you when competing for a new job with a different organisation.. having said that a friend who finished Uni with a Masters 7 years ago struggled to get meaningful work at all for a year or two, overqualified for this, and no work experience for that!

 

Now he's in management after working for 2-3 years doing noddy things. Odd.