Mk4 LSD

[ninja_eli]

Hi all,

 

I have a Supra TT Jap Spec. The car has many options on it, such as brakes UK style etc, but essentially it is a RZ spec car.

 

I have a few questions that I would be VERY grateful if someone could answer.

 

First off, do the Jap cars have a vin number as the UK ones do, that can identify the car's setup etc? Not just the frame number, which is all I have been able to find on mine. It should read JT**** etc.

 

Also, I think my car has a problem with the limited slip diff. Of course, main dealer wants to change complete unit, but this is not necessary and expensive. Its been looked at and I've been told the teflon on the LSD bits have worn. The parts are around £300 apparently.

 

Another repair (tdi plc) shop has told me that my car never had LSD. I was under the impression that all Supra 6spd TT has LSD. My Axle code is B03B, which I understand to be a torsen LSD. Does anyone know the truth?

 

Also, has anyone used tdi plc? If you cannot post here, please email me direct. I have heard very good things about them, but they are a little far. I don't mind travelling, but if anyone knows somewhere else I could have it repaired, I would be interested to know.

 

Which of the Supra LSD are the "open type" diff? Is the torsen system the open type diff, as I suspect it is?

 

I don't know why the diff is making the noise, but the car has been unused for several months until recently. Could that cause a problem? Or do these things just fail from time to time (I've been told to fit a TRD LSD as they are much stronger)?

 

Big Thanks in advance,

 

My car is an M reg late 1994 RZ specification Twin Turbo with 6spd manual.

[Sharpie]

Hi ninja_eli, I can't help you with your questions but welcome to the board

[Branners]

With a B03B axle code you do have an LSD fitted. If it ended in an A then you do not.

 

I have never heard of a diff on a mkiv failing, even after some serious abuse they just keep on going.

 

What makes you think there is something wrong with it?

 

JB

[Gordon F]

Hi Ninja and welcome.

 

Your car should have a chassis plate under the bonnet, on top of the inner wing on the drivers side. If you look at the link here it should give you all the info you need.

[ninja_eli]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the welcome! It's great to find such a good Supra website!

 

With regards to the diff, it's making a weird sound, like a grinding sound. Similar to a wheel bearing failure. I had it looked at by Toyota and they confirmed rear diff, another mechanic friend of mine said same thing, and finally a diff specialist took it apart and claims the LSD is the failure. Apparently the teflon has come off it and is what is causing the sound. The car is driven fast, but never abused. I know they are Toyota's and seriously bullet proof, but I am also "mechanically sympathetic". I don't like to abuse a car, although I do enjoy the high speed cornering prowess of the car. Maybe that is the cause? Funny though, it happened to make the sound after being unused for a while.

 

I was thinking of perhaps buying a second hand complete diff and just swapping? Not my ideal or first choice simply because you don't know what the diff is like until its on, and then its too late!

 

Had a look at the Toyota parts map and I think I am right in thinking that parts enclosed in part no 41301 are what I need? Can anyone who is conversant with the setup confirm?

 

Wow, this is really turning into a headache. Love the Supra to bits, but this is a dampener on her memory with me.

 

Thanks for your help so far guys, truly appreciated!

[adi]

 

 

An 'open diff' is just a non-lsd type diff. A torsen is an LSD but which works by mechanical means rather than clutch type/viscous LSD. The LSD part of torsen diffs dont wear out *ever* but i suppose its possible for the gears or bearings to go.. not really sure. If you do decide to fit another diff try and find a torsen unit.. they're generally accepted as being the better.

 

Having no VIN plate sounds extremely dodgy.. you got all the relevant paperwork that checks out?

[Steve Cargill]

Originally posted by adi

Hmmm strange.. i thought that all mkiv's come with torsens..obviously some dont. If yours is a torsen then it wont wear out, as torsens dont use any such friction type parts.

 

Adi, I think all the UK ones had an LSD, as did the GZ. It was an option on the RZ. Many of the earlier RZ's don't have it, but apparently you can just bolt one - with oil cooler attached - straight on.

 

Proof I don't have one :-

 

http://www.cargills.demon.co.uk/supra/images/NoLSD.JPG

[ninja_eli]

Hi adi,

 

The VIN number is not like on the UK type ones. Toyota dealer confirmed this for me. UK ones have a complete JT number, mine has only the numbers shown on the tag on the nz website link posted earlier.

 

I was told by the diff specialist that it was an open type LSD. Are you sure that open type means no diff? The code B03B suggests a torsen LSD?

 

Oooops, complicated stuff!

 

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated, and keep them coming, it will resolve a major problem for me. Apparently, diffs do not go wrong much on Supras, my luck eh?

[adi]

To be honest, im no expert, im only going on what i read up about my torsen and are going from memory. But im 99% certain an 'open diff' is a conventional non lsd diff.

 

The torsen only works as an open diff when the car is in a straight line, and no other time. so in effect... no.. an open diff is not an LSD, torsen or otherwise. If you were told your car has an open diff then its 90% likely you have got a non-lsd fitted. Oh, and apparently torsens cant be economically repaired and have to be scrapped... so no repair kit is available for them.

 

The only way to be sure is by the chassis code i guess.. oh, and ignore most mechanics unless they work on cars like the supra regularly, as they will just take a guess as to what it is.

[Alex]

If it ends in a B then the factory fitted an LSD. Unless they were tripping out! (pun intended).

 

My car has ALFQZ for the code which is an RZ 6pd etc etc.

You vin plate should contain something like:

E-JZA80-0xxxxxxx.

 

If its knackered try a scrap yard for a spare....good time of year to be looking for spares

[MONKEYmark]

mine has not got a lsd

how usefull are they and can i get one for my car a standard lsd or say a trd or cusco lsd

 

heard they are suppose to be good for drag racing.what sort of price are they, and how much work is involved in putting one in?

[Alex]

TRD do an uprated plate type (better than torsion) for the Supra...less than a grand I believe.

[Supra Pilot]

Can anyone confirm if 'ALL' Uk spec's has 'LSD's or Torsen diff's as standard?

 

Dom

[ninja_eli]

sorry double post

[ninja_eli]

yep, my model code is ALFQZ also. The axle code does return that the car has an LSD, torsen type. I believe this is what the mechanic that looked at it said, but he called it an open type diff, but claimed that it was a torsen open type diff!!!

 

You can get a TRD LSD put on for £1200 plus VAT from TDI, not sure what others will quote. Does anyone know a good firm that are familiar with these cars? Just in case one firm cannot fit me/do the work etc etc?

 

Its the repair shop that I gave the chassis code to that claims my car does not have the LSD, apparently they get this info from the Toyota register? I can't see how they obtained that data from the chassis no alone, without trans/axle details. But who am I to doubt them?

 

In respect of the UK cars, they all came with it standard, as did all GZ spec cars. A lot of RZ cars were fitted with it too, but it was apparently optional.

 

At least this has been very educational for me.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by ninja_eli

In respect of the UK cars, they all came with it standard, as did all GZ spec cars. A lot of RZ cars were fitted with it too, but it was apparently optional.

 

Well according to that website that was linked further up ALL 6 speed TT's had LSD and it was an option on Auto TT's.

[Terminator]

It takes serious abuse to wreck one of those units.

 

Not doubting your posts, but there is a chance that some one swapped out your diff before your got the car. Just because it say B on the plate does not mean it is the B diff in the car now. I have had two diffs, a non LSD and an LSD, side by side and there are no manufacture marks on the casings that allow identification the only distinguishing marks are written in Japanese in white paint, I could not see much difference between the characters. So it would be very easy to mix them up, you have to look at internals to see the difference AFAIK.

 

Fitting a LSD is not difficult, just make sure you get new stretch mounting bolts, I have part numbers somewhere. They are bloody heavy so a trolley jack and a friend are very useful when manoeuvring the diffs about under the car. Very difficult to do on your own , not enough hands to lift balance and do up bolts, with out crushing your skull;).

 

Do a search on LSD as there has been some previous discussion and link to the NZ site. I don't think the guys that went TRD LSD did not get what they expected from the extra cash. The stock LSD is a very tough unit, see what the USA guys do to them on drag strips. Coolers are not really required unless you are going to do a lot of track use. For the odd dash down the drag strip and fast road use, a non cooler version should more than meet your needs.

 

If you go S/H make sure you get the right LSD as auto and manuals are different. You would be really unlucky to pick up another bad one.

[Nathan]

Chaps,

 

After hearing about what seemed to be mis-information from these quarters I thought I'd have an ask around and found out that we were never given the axle code by ninja_eli.

 

We were only given the chassis and vehicle codes, which makes it even more confusing because ninja_eli states on an early post that he didn't have them, but his email to us came before the one to this board...?!

 

We contacted Toyota on his behalf to see if they could establish whether he had an LSD or not, purely by reference from the codes we had been given. Toyota could not be certain on this and simply said that it probably didn't have one.

 

Anyways, no matter, just thought I'd clarify our position. Glad it got sorted in the end.

 

Regards to all

 

Nathan.

TDIPLC:)

[ninja_eli]

Terminator,

 

I've had the car for over 5 years now, so I don't think anyone has swapped anything around. The car definitely has the codes B03B for the axle code. I am pretty sure that it does have the LSD. I bought the car from a Toyota dealer in Japan, and it has all the service history etc from Japan too. I personally imported it myself.

 

 

Nathan,

 

At the time of writing the first email to you, I did not know that the axle code existed. I knew only the chassis number and thought it could all be searched from there.

 

I was clearly wrong there, Toyota informed me that the Jap spec cars do not have the same VIN codes as UK, US and Euro cars.

 

In fact Nathan I did send the axle code to you guys later, but it was in a separate email, which was sent as an after thought as I just got the details of how to obtain the axle code right after sending you the first email on that day, perhaps you never got it? I was sending via a friends email on hotmail, I don't get confirmation of receipt unfortunately. I got a return email from you that it would be easier to have a TRD diff to be on the safe side.

 

My post clearly states that I do have the chassis codes, what I said I needed and wanted to know existed on the Jap spec cars was the VIN code such as JT****** like US and Euro cars. What makes you think I never had my chassis code??? The problem is that the chassis code (frame no) does nothing to help identify the set up of the car.

 

Either way, its still not resolved unfortunately, and I sympathise with anyone who has to search these things up, it can be a real nightmare. Thank you TDI plc, Nathan and Mark for taking the time to search for me. As you can understand, I would prefer to keep most items as stock as possible, so I would prefer the Toyota Diff. Apparently, it is a more appropriate system unless you are really racing or have some serious BHP going through it. I do neither, so would prefer to keep torsen type.

 

However, if nothing comes up by early January I will book the car in with you guys to have the TRD LSD installed. In the meantime if anyone has any further info I would be very grateful. I also promise to post here any details I get from Toyota and any other Toyota dealers. These forums are an invaluable source of information.

 

Thanks guys

[Nathan]

 

At the time of writing the first email to you, I did not know that the axle code existed. I knew only the chassis number and thought it could all be searched from there.

 

I was clearly wrong there, Toyota informed me that the Jap spec cars do not have the same VIN codes as UK, US and Euro cars.>

 

 

Hi there,

 

There are only two codes you need on the JDM models to obtain any parts. That is, the model code (in your case ALFQZ) and the chassis number JZA80 00..... (not printed in full due to scum who play with plates). Armed with those two codes you should be able to wak into any Toyota dealer to buy any part for that car. We sent the codes to our Toyota guy and he actually confirmed that, according to Toyota, your vehicle never left the factory with an LSD fitted.

 

I guess the bottom line is that Toyota are either wrong with their data, or someone has played with the chassis plate on your car (assuming that is where you got your axle code from). Don't bother looking for a VIN number- there won't be one. Or on any JDM car for that matter.

 

This is all of course assuming that you do indeed have an LSD fitted. It's very easy to tell. If you're unsure bring it down here and I'll see how much rubber I can leave up the road :-)

 

 

 

 

No, never rec'd a second mail. Sorry.

 

 

 

Aaah. Thats where the confusion was. You are looking for a code that doesn't exist, and I interpreted that as you not having all the codes. Sorry. At the time I wrotew my last mail I did not have your email to us in front of me, only word from Mark.

 

 

 

No problem at all, I just want to see you sorted out. What confuses me is the amount of hassle you are having. I have yet to have a problem with ordering any JDM part, given the information that you already have.

 

 

 

I agree, the stock diffs are nicer to use and are more than man enough for most people, and I also hope that a TRD diff wasn't too 'pushed' upon you as your only option. I never had a problem with my stock diff and neither have I heard of one falling apart either. You'll normally twist propshafts before blowing your diff apart or causing excessive wear.

 

As for getting a stock diff, I think the easiest thing to do is obtain another chassis and model code from a similar year Supra from another member of the BBS and order it that way. I'd be extremely surprised if it didn't fit, put it that way ;-)

 

Cheers

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

[Nathan]

Aaaand.........my last post makes absolutely no sense at all does it without your quotes inserted. Damn BBS's ;-)

 

Your text was in the box my end so I've no idea why it didn't post but hey ho. You'll have to try and pick through it.

 

Is there an easy way of quoting?

 

Cheers,

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

[ninja_eli]

Hi Nathan,

 

Thanks for the help, it really and truly is appreciated. I have spent most of today contacting Toyota dealers etc and trying to get some details. Apparently my car does NOT have LSD, according what the Toyota dealer in the USA has received from Japan. He agrees with you that it contradicts the axle code that I have got!

 

I too am surprised at this scenario. The dealers are having a problem deciding what my car has! I think the source of my confusion is coming from the fact that a company called CTS (I don't know what the rules are here regarding naming and shaming etc, so I won't mention the full name!) had a look and claimed it was the LSD that has failed. He couldn't get hold of the parts and refunded the deposit for the repair. I think he failed to properly diagnose what my car has and the problem with it. I am still confused as to why it says B03B on the axle code, if mine was indeed originally never fitted with it?

 

It will probably have to wait until the new year, but I will definitely bring the car in to you, the tyres are relatively new bridgestones, you are more than welcome to spread the rubber around a bit!!!!

 

Apparently, if my car really is LSDless, I can get hold of a second hand LSD, but need the driveshaft and the axle sides(?). Is this more costly than just going the TRD route? Mark suggested TRD as the easier alternative due to the problems I have been having with Toyota. Is there a way of maintaining LSDless and just changing the internal components of the open diff that have failed?

 

Wow, I think I'm beginning to learn a little about all this stuff, em well, then again maybe not! :D

 

Thanks again for your help,

 

Warmest Regards

[Nathan]

Hi there,

 

OK, the first thing to do before you go anywhere is establish whether this car defo has an LSD or not. We've all gone around the houses on the word of someone else who you now think could be wrong.

 

I'm certainly not going to name or shame anyone (the punters do that) but I really can't see it being a problem for anyone that knows anything about Supras to confirm if the thing has an LSD or not. The single black line pictured by another member is an excellent example. Go and try it (on a private road of course ;-)

 

Once you know for sure, things can progress into driveshaft fitment etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Nathan

TDI PLC

[Matt Harwood]

I could be completely wrong as I'm going by what I remember from old cars and probably very old technology, (mk2 Escorts and Capris).

If things are still the same, you used to be able to simply jack the rear of the car up, turn one of the wheels and see what direction the other one turns.

 

If it turned the same direction, you had a LSD. If it rotated the opposite direction, you had a standard diff.

 

Simple test in those days but it might not apply here - Perhaps someone in the know can confirm?

 

Might save a bit on tyre wear

[adi]

nope that test doesnt work with torsen diffs, they work differently from conventional LSD.