Paper Today....

[Septic]

Instead of dusting off the old papyrus paper and worrying about everything, then playing call of duty for the remainder of your life, why not go out and enjoy your life a bit more. You only get one, and when it's gone, that's it.

 

 

Hehe another contradiction within itself. If the way you perceive things is true then it wouldn't matter if I "went out and enjoyed myself a bit more", jumping on trampolines and the like, or researched on life and played COD- the end result would be the same- our experiences would be negligible considering the fact that this life is temporary and we wouldn't have any recollection of what ensured before.

 

Thus- from your perspective- whther you're a serial killer or a charity worker, you end up the same way. It doesn't matter

[Purity14]

Thus- from your(Matt H Style) perspective- whther you're a serial killer or a charity worker, you end up the same way. It doesn't matter

 

..erm what?

[Septic]

Whilst Matt might be a little slow, he certainly does not speak for all atheists.

 

I do wonder what research you've done - sounds interesting. I am currently writing my Ph.D, which has involved 4 long years of research.

 

This research is underpinned by science and the formulae that describe the world around us.

 

I'm trying to contribute as best I can to the growth of knowledge on the subject of global climate change, from a completely unbiased viewpoint, based on facts and without any swing in either direction (i.e. not politically motivated in any way).

 

Science is only similar to religion in that many people "believe" in science without actually understanding any of it.

 

Trust me, I am not painting you with the same brush. Most of my friends are atheists/agnostics and I completely appreciate and understand the sentiments of those who genuinely make an appreciable attempt to understand and critique this life/ theology etc.

 

As much as this description is a misnomer; for the sake of explaining my position better- I look at things objectively, like an agnostic so to speak. As the Qur'an states; if i find one clear contradiction or a single verse that is WRONG then i will stop being a Muslim. The Qur'an essentially demands this.

[Septic]

..erm what?

 

I'm making a point about our temporary existence and that our emotions/consciousness are only a result of physical reactions in the brain and nothing more. You live, you die...end of. That is one of the truths that needs to be reconciled with if you are an atheist.

 

[EDIT] Guess how much work I'm getting done at the office today!

[martini]

Thus- from your perspective- whther you're a serial killer or a charity worker, you end up the same way. It doesn't matter

 

The final result doesn't matter, correct.

 

What does matter though is that people lead a good life - as this is our only "go" we should make it as good as possible.

 

Whether this is done through being brought up to respect others, have morals and values and question the world around you, or through religious doctrine is irrelevant.

 

Trust me, I am not painting you with the same brush. Most of my friends are atheists/agnostics and I completely appreciate and understand the sentiments of those who genuinely make an appreciable attempt to understand and critique this life/ theology etc.

 

As much as this description is a misnomer; for the sake of explaining my position better- I look at things objectively, like an agnostic so to speak. As the Qur'an states; if i find one clear contradiction or a single verse that is WRONG then i will stop being a Muslim. The Qur'an essentially demands this.

 

Don't worry, I don't think you're equating me to Matt. If I thought that, then there'd be trouble

 

I wasn't aware that the Qur'an demanded that; perhaps it went through a better peer review system than The Bible...

[Purity14]

I'm making a point about our temporary existence and that our emotions/consciousness are only a result of physical reactions in the brain and nothing more. You live, you die...end of. That is one of the truths that needs to be reconciled with if you are an atheist.

 

[EDIT] Guess how much work I'm getting done at the office today!

 

Pff, nonsence.

 

Sitting in prison for killing someone all your life.

Or raising a family and living your life outside of prison.

 

I know who has had the best life.

[dandan]

..... if i find one clear contradiction or a single verse that is WRONG then i will stop being a Muslim. The Qur'an essentially demands this.

 

What do you mean by wrong?

[Septic]

The final result doesn't matter, correct.

 

What does matter though is that people lead a good life - as this is our only "go" we should make it as good as possible.

 

Whether this is done through being up to respect others, have morals and values, question the world around you, or through religious doctrine is irrelevant.

 

Why though? Someone could just as well within their rights come here and state:

 

What does matter though is that YOU get all you can get- enjoy life as much as possible and overcome our emotions to enjoy our lives regardless of whether we inflict pain or disrespect others and their morals and values

 

Think about it- we are here...we die. Simples. So just do what you want to do and that's it. Under this model, no matter how much a whole majoirty of people critique you, its just their opinion.

[Septic]

Pff, nonsence.

 

Sitting in prison for killing someone all your life.

Or raising a family and living your life outside of prison.

 

I know who has had the best life.

 

You're missing the point.

[Septic]

What do you mean by wrong?

 

i.e. Factually erroneous.

[Lbm]

Ninja Garden? They shurikan mow a lawn real quick.

 

Coat's already on....

 

 

Ah...I see you're using the old coat-on exit strategy manoeuvre.

[martini]

Pff, nonsence.

 

Sitting in prison for killing someone all your life.

Or raising a family and living your life outside of prison.

 

I know who has had the best life.

 

I think his point is though, that when we're dead and buried under the ground, 2000 years from now... what you did in your life doesn't matter. If Global Warming kills all life on the Earth - it doesn't "matter" to anyone except us.

 

Nothing actually matters if you are Atheist.

 

Religions were started to provide an answer to the question "Why are we here?" - "Because a creator made us".

 

If there was no creator; then there is no purpose and thus no 'meaning' to life (should you need one to go about your days).

[martini]

Think about it- we are here...we die. Simples. So just do what you want to do and that's it. Under this model, no matter how much a whole majoirty of people critique you, its just their opinion.

 

I agree entirely - and look at society now! The masses could do with some kind of religious kick up the bum

[Matt H]

Hehe another contradiction within itself. If the way you perceive things is true then it wouldn't matter if I "went out and enjoyed myself a bit more", jumping on trampolines and the like, or researched on life and played COD- the end result would be the same- our experiences would be negligible considering the fact that this life is temporary and we wouldn't have any recollection of what ensured before.

 

Thus- from your perspective- whther you're a serial killer or a charity worker, you end up the same way. It doesn't matter

 

You can be quite simple. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's about how you live your life. ‘Enjoying life’ is about experiencing it and everything it has to offer. Enjoying COD constantly is not enjoying life.

 

You’re last paragraph is assuming I am selfish. If there was one thing I took from my Christian days, it was ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. You do NOT need to be a religious person to have a strong moral compass. Right and wrong can be determined without looking to the skys.

[Purity14]

I think his point is though, that when we're dead and buried under the ground, 2000 years from now... what you did in your life doesn't matter. If Global Warming kills all life on the Earth - it doesn't "matter" to anyone except us.

 

So lets imagine we are 2000 years from now.

Did you enjoy your life? Athest or not?

Would you have enjoyed it as much if you were sat in a jail cell for its duration>

 

Who is us?

[Septic]

I agree entirely - and look at society now! The masses could do with some kind of religious kick up the bum

 

Hehe touché.

 

Adopting the atheist view...meh

 

Religious view......*crap ourselves time* lol

 

I think debates such as this, online on a forum are vastly different in nature to the ones you can have in person. My muslim mate and I talk about these issues and I think people would be surprised at how objectively we assess things, especially being Muslims.

 

If we Muslims (or fellow believes in God or the afterlife) are correct, then atheists might find themselves in a pickle in the afterlife.

 

If we are wrong, then it doesn't matter because we're all dead!

 

I guess, in hindsight, its silly to get irate on debates such as these. If only people were as chilled as martini and understood my tone lol.

 

Ah well....ibtl

[Septic]

So lets imagine we are 2000 years from now.

Did you enjoy your life? Athest or not?

Would you have enjoyed it as much if you were sat in a jail cell for its duration>

 

Who is us?

 

The question is obsolete. The value of your enjoyment is irrelevant. It will be as if you didn't exist.

You’re last paragraph is assuming I am selfish. If there was one thing I took from my Christian days, it was ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. You do NOT need to be a religious person to have a strong moral compass. Right and wrong can be determined without looking to the skys.

 

I am not assuming you are selfish. I am asserting the fact that you CAN BE. You CAN BE Hitler or Mother Teresa. Its a bit like playing Fallout 3 really. Evil and Good...the people you can kill are merely polygons/textures etc....in this life...people are merely biological entities. Ultimately nothing matters because everything is destined to be destroyed simply because of OUR destruction and deletion of our memories.

[martini]

So lets imagine we are 2000 years from now.

Did you enjoy your life? Athest or not?

Would you have enjoyed it as much if you were sat in a jail cell for its duration>

 

Who is us?

 

In 2000 years I won't be around, and thus won't care.

 

One can only enjoy life whilst in existence.

[michael]

So in summary the pope has to remove his crash helmet if he wants to poo in the woods?

[Septic]

In 2000 years I won't be around, and thus won't care.

 

One can only enjoy life whilst in existence.

 

Exactly.

[Septic]

So in summary the pope has to remove his crash helmet if he wants to poo in the woods?

 

Lol wtf?!

[Ian C]

I did post, what I felt was compelling evidence providing evidence for Islamic belief in the previous thread on here. That's what I'm referring to with my sentiments on Matt H's posts. It included verses regarding Geology, Embryology, Cosmology and various other areas.Do you really want me to post it here or make another topic on it? I think you, of all people, would know how that would go down.

 

Of course I don't want it reposting here, I'll get in trouble

 

It sounds like you showed the Quran (pardon my butchering of the exact way that's written) can be interpreted as predicting some natural phenomena, but that's not really the discussion here(that's more like a Nostradamus issue). I'm just after proof that a god exists

 

Not just "it was written in a book a long time ago" otherwise I might as well believe in King Lear. I mean repeatable observations of predictable and consistent behaviour, from which you can draw conclusions and make working theories. Like, I dunno, lighting a lightbulb to prove electricity flows and using that to develop a theory of electrical conductivity in metals based on electrons and so forth.

 

While I've never myself witnessed individual electrons shuffling about, I don't need blind faith in what I've read as I know with the right gear, and following the work already done in the world, I can 100% reproduce the exact findings of everyone else who's ever looked into electrical conductivity. Can't say I've ever seen a talking burning bush though, or had the seas divide so I can drive to France while avoiding the Chunnel fare (which is a shame ).

 

I'm trying my best to not be antagonistic. I'm more trying to demonstrate what some of us unwashed atheists would need in order to be convinced. If you can't provide that level of proof (and somehow I don't think it'll be forthcoming otherwise I'd have had a lightning bolt up my ass midsentence), then you may as well tell me to believe 2+2 = 5 no matter what science and maths say otherwise Hopefully that doesn't make you angry.

 

-Ian

[Matt H]

So in summary the pope has to remove his crash helmet if he wants to poo in the woods?

 

Only on a Sunday

[martini]

Hehe touché.

 

I think debates such as this, online on a forum are vastly different in nature to the ones you can have in person. My muslim mate and I talk about these issues and I think people would be surprised at how objectively we assess things, especially being Muslims.

 

My brother-"in-law" (I'm not married) just married a muslim girl and we had the whole muslim wedding experience. We all had a great time and were made to feel very welcome, and I had some really interesting conversations with some people there about many different topics.

 

I think religion fades into the background in real-life conversations as there are more interesting things to discuss. Intelligence is a pre-requisite to a good conversation.

 

If we Muslims (or fellow believes in God or the afterlife) are correct, then atheists might find themselves in a pickle in the afterlife.

 

I'll take that risk. Feel free to tease me about it if I am wrong

 

If we are wrong, then it doesn't matter because we're all dead!

 

Lose:Lose for me then isn't it?

 

I guess, in hindsight, its silly to get irate on debates such as these. If only people were as chilled as martini and understood my tone lol.

 

Thanks

 

I'll happily waste my life ([sic] Matt_H) and play some CODMW2 with you once I've finished my Ph.D (October).

 

Lol wtf?!

 

Michael's just bringing the thread back on topic

[Dnk]

Can't wait to see them arrest him with or without his helmet