Chris Wilson Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I'll go and pick up my cut later then..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 W*nker. tough guy eh? Hiding behind a keyboard does have this effect, doesnt it? Sorry, but FFS have you not seen mine, Terry's or any of the other highly tuned VVTi's? Maybe your command of the english language leaves a bit to be desired. The key word in my comment was "as" They are not as tunable as the non-VVTIs. Not all aftermarket ECUs handle the VVTi properly, and there is not such an aftermarket selection of cams for the VVTi Rogue ---> congratulations mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Not all aftermarket ECUs handle the VVTi properly, and there is not such an aftermarket selection of cams for the VVTi ECU's electronics you can use the VVTI with: Motec AEM E-manage MAP ECU HKS F-con Pro V (these are just the ones used in the UK/Europe for sure, plenty more I am sure will work) Cam tuning? OK so there isn't the choice as you say but both the HKS Valcon Pro system & Power Enterprise Camcon - both allowing more scope than any off the shelf cam for a non VVTi. Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The key word in my comment was "as" I saw it John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 ECU's electronics you can use the VVTI with: Motec AEM E-manage MAP ECU HKS F-con Pro V (these are just the ones used in the UK/Europe for sure, plenty more I am sure will work). The key operand here was "properly" Gaz Claiming that they can live with the VVTi is not the same as properly controlling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I think its a bit of an unimportant issue tbh, for the power levels most people would realistically mod to its not worth arguing over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I'm not sure about the 'unimportant' bit, I'd like things to be changed and behave the way I expect them to, not have the VVTi play games trying to undo the changes. Theoretically the VVTi is superior of course, I just haven't seen a decent level of controlling it to help a tuned engine. I've played with cams a lot, and it's all about compromises. VVTi allows you to have far fewer compromises, which can only be a good thing. ...so AEM fully controls the VVTi now? nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Just check out http://www.to4r.com and see many VVTi Supras on there pushing out silly bhp levels. Anything is tunable if you throw enough money at it. I just dont think its worth arguing about which is superior. At the end of the day the more powerful tuned Supras have standard engines in but thats not to say the VVTi models cant be tuned as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Just check out http://www.to4r.com and see many VVTi Supras on there pushing out silly bhp levels. Anything is tunable if you throw enough money at it. I just dont think its worth arguing about which is superior. At the end of the day the more powerful tuned Supras have standard engines in but thats not to say the VVTi models cant be tuned as high. If Gaz says that all these ECUs can fully control the VVTi then that's how it is --- I'm not gonna argue, these things move on and when I was contemplating a VVTi ( a few years back) it was treated more like a 'black box'. Maybe things are different now. By the way, do you believe all those figures people claim at to4r? I am naturally sceptical when it comes to some of those hyper-powerful beasts. Their owners don't look very clued-up for starters. Does anyone else get this impression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 W*nker. No need for that at all! :thumbdown tough guy eh? Hiding behind a keyboard does have this effect, doesnt it? Maybe your command of the english language leaves a bit to be desired. The key word in my comment was "as" Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The key operand here was "properly" Gaz Claiming that they can live with the VVTi is not the same as properly controlling it. Depends how modded the car is. The VVTi timing isn't bad as standard but everything can be improved! In terms of full control the Motec, AEM & I think the HKS in conj. with the Valcon. If you've got the cash and want big power, the part to get is the Valcon system which offers stock like performance round the town and opens to a monster 272 required! A TDI customer car is running over 700hp @ 1.8 on Optimax, with HKS 2835's, Valcon & Fcon Pro V. It makes full boost by 4400rpm which is rather impressive. Arnout is running a AEM on his VVTi, single turbo'd supercharged beast. Theres lots of info/debate on the AEM Power forum for VVTi control and Honda's I-Vtec etc, have a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 By the way, do you believe all those figures people claim at to4r? I am naturally sceptical when it comes to some of those hyper-powerful beasts. Their owners don't look very clued-up for starters. Does anyone else get this impression? Why disbelieve them... they're only stating figures output by their dynos. They've been heavily into tuning Supras for years, they probably have 5+ years on 99% of the people on this forum with regards to getting the best out of the car. Most of these cars run times to back it up, so im not gonna sit here pointing fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Why disbelieve them... they're only stating figures output by their dynos. They've been heavily into tuning Supras for years, they probably have 5+ years on 99% of the people on this forum with regards to getting the best out of the car. Most of these cars run times to back it up, so im not gonna sit here pointing fingers. The US uses a different horse power unit to that used in the UK, which makes their power figures look inflated to us, ie. 1hp in the US = less than 1hp in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 1hp in the US = less than 1hp in the UK. Lovely scientific formula there Nic! Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Lovely scientific formula there Nic! Gaz. I'm not sure which horsepower they use in the US, there are 4 different units AFAIK; International hp, Metric hp, Water hp and Electric hp. Basically the UK uses one of those and the yanks use a different one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The US uses a different horse power unit to that used in the UK, which makes their power figures look inflated to us, ie. 1hp in the US = less than 1hp in the UK. I know, but im not gonna sit here calling bs on the figures they come out with. As has been discussed before, we just need one of their cars on one of our dynos, and Vice-versa to see the differences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I know, but im not gonna sit here calling bs on the figures they come out with. As has been discussed before, we just need one of their cars on one of our dynos, and Vice-versa to see the differences I wasn't questioning you Bobbeh, just adding to your post for another explanation of the US figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 No worries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismo_lp Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The threads got technical now and way out of my depth... just wanted to say the cars looking good! £10k for a decent 97 seems like a very good buy to me! As for the risks, as already mentioned with buying cars its very difficult to eliminate 'all' risks, think youve done a good job by putting the thread up and everyone on the site has been helpful. Hope all goes well with the car mate, and im sure we will all be seeing you soon at some meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 No worries Nic, I was only messing with ya IIRC we use DIN and our American friends use SAE. This sums it up nicely: "Ideally, every dyno pull would be done under identical atmospheric conditions. This is seldom the case, so a power correction factor (CF) is applied to a measured power reading to compensate for changes in barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity. The power CF helps make it possible to compare dyno runs performed at different locations and under different atmospheric conditions, but it is not 100% accurate. The most common correction factors used are Standard, SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), and DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm). Less common are EEC, JIS, and Uncorrected. SAE uses less favorable atmospheric conditions than Standard or DIN, and it is the most frequently used for rear wheel testing. Lower correction factors also tend to be more accurate. It is important to remember however that a CF is only intended to compensate for small atmospheric differences and doesn’t correct for other factors, such as engine and oil temperatures." Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 I know, but im not gonna sit here calling bs on the figures they come out with. I'm not saying they're all BS, just hard to swallow sometimes. I've had chats with some of them and they are practically clueless (apart from listing names of aftermarket manufacturers/parts) I suspect that there is a list of reasons to account for the discrepancies. The big-hp runs in the States are all done on full racing gas. That is one factor for sure. Engine dynos with mains-water chargecoolers are often another factor (can't really ever replicate that sort of chargecooling efficiency away from the mains water supply!) I'm sure that there are other factors as well, the liberal use of the term 'stock internals' doesn't help either (sometimes it just means that the bare block is still stock -- destressed, deseamed etc ofcourse...) ..As has been discussed before, we just need one of their cars on one of our dynos, and Vice-versa to see the differences very true although a car that does a 9 second run will be quick no doubt. Drag racing is a Yank sport anyway, so they're bound to know the odd 'trick of the trade' eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Drag racing is a Yank sport anyway, so they're bound to know the odd 'trick of the trade' eh? They have proper drag strips too, in every state! We on the other hand don't have any - only Pod when they bother prepping it. Regards, Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The Pod, sometimes an utter joke... Would be good for ice skating competitions perhaps, lol... A straight empty stretch of road and an accelerometer can give results that are quite accurate and repeatable (to the 0.1sec). That's my favourite method, it's close and it's free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The Pod, sometimes an utter joke... Would be good for ice skating competitions perhaps, lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The fact they dont know whats in their car probably indicates they've just paid a garage big bucks to sort it, fix it with a kit etc and they dont care! Just because they're not all clued up doesnt mean that their cars arnt as good as made up. You have to remember in the land of excess, that is what you get and what they're trying to achieve all the time. Again with full race gas, if you're racing, wanting ultimate power you're not going to use pump gas, the same is true here is it not? You have to accept that this country is behind the times when it comes to Supra tuning and its only recently (last 3 years I'd say) that its really started to take off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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