What do you use to tune a supra with Mass Air Flow meter?

[wojtrek]

Hi guys,

since I have a EDM supra, which is same as UKDM supra, just LHD, I have a MAF meter. I need to tune fuel. I know that tuning a MAP only Jspec 2JZ is easy, but tuning a MAF car is a whole different story.

 

I have heard (correct me if I'm wrong), that tuning a MAF supra with any type of piggy back, is basically altering the MAF signal going to the ECU thus not only altering the fuel but also ignition maps - risk being that when you trick the ECU that way, there might be a situation that the ECU will alter the timing in a dangerous way.

 

To add fuel you up the signal on the MAF, so maybe in this case all that can happen is the ignition being retarded (as MAF signal is way higher than expected by the stock ECU). Trying to lean out might be more dangerous, because this can advance the timing - I hope I got this right?

 

So, what is the max I can get out of the MAF? is there a max signal level? Is 500bhp (or at least a safe 460-470) doable with a MAF and a piggyback?

 

If it is, which piggyback should I use? I have td04 based hybrids, so still a twin turbo setup.

Any advice much appreciated!

[bignum]

Your best bet would be to ditch the maf and go standalone like aem or solaris, then run your turbo`s parallel, is there any decent mappers over your way, see what they advise unless you wanted to have a go at tuning it yourself?

[wojtrek]

i just installed hybrids in my car - parallel mode is out of the question. I want my car as streetable as possible.

 

I know AEM is the best bet, but this is a rather hardcore approach I think.

No idea what the solaris is.

But my question is, is it at all possible to tune a supra with MAF using only a piggyback? The car I think will just need a few percent more fuel, no major modifications I think.

[shima60]

You can get a FCD and say a SAFC that will probably do your fueling but it will never be as accurate as full standalone i know... i did the exact same thing. AFM to Standalone Big difference.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Emanage ultimate or AEM FIC will do the job.

[Konrad]

Wojtrek, did you recieve my PM?

[wojtrek]

OK, so I now know, that for instance Emanage ultimate should do the job.

 

Are there any risks involved in piggybacking a MAF 2JZ? Any examples of blown up engines?

[Tricky-Ricky]

OK, so I now know, that for instance Emanage ultimate should do the job.

 

Are there any risks involved in piggybacking a MAF 2JZ? Any examples of blown up engines?

 

Thats going to be very much a case of how its mapped;)

 

I mapped my old S14 to make another 100BHP with an ultimate, that was with a MFA.

[Ian C]

OK, so I now know, that for instance Emanage ultimate should do the job.

 

Are there any risks involved in piggybacking a MAF 2JZ? Any examples of blown up engines?

 

I mapped JB's MAF-equipped T61 single and as far as I know that never blew up, and that was with an E-Manage Blue. A MAF is just an airflow device, it spits out a voltage and that's it

 

Running sequential twins will be a breeze.

[wojtrek]

great! thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

i just thought that tuning MAF signal and MAP signal on a supra at the same time might be tricky. although maybe all I'll need is just a moderate tune for my hybrids...

 

also, can anyone confirm what I read here in archived posts, that with a piggyback, you cannot control whatever is happening before transition, because the ECU is ignoring this signal or something along those lines? this is stuff read here, so don't flame me this might as well be a load of cr*p, but I'd rather ask.

[Ian C]

great! thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

i just thought that tuning MAF signal and MAP signal on a supra at the same time might be tricky. although maybe all I'll need is just a moderate tune for my hybrids...

 

You don't need to tune both at once. The MAP sensor on MAF cars is only used for fuel cut and possibly controlling the transition on the twins. With JBs car being a single conversion, I just removed the vacuum hose and blocked it off, so it'd never see the boost level and thus stop fuel cut. I don't know if it affects the sequential setup, I've just heard it does in the past one here. If it does then it's not advisable to just remove it.

 

While the E-Manage family and others can remove fuel cut by clamping the airflow signal to a maximum level that's just below 1bar, this won't work with the MAF as you can only tap into one airflow sensor and obviously this has to be the MAF sensor. You'll need a seperate fuel cut defender on the MAP signal wire to stop fuel cut in this case, but do try the "disconnect and block" method first.

 

also, can anyone confirm what I read here in archived posts, that with a piggyback, you cannot control whatever is happening before transition, because the ECU is ignoring this signal or something along those lines? this is stuff read here, so don't flame me this might as well be a load of cr*p, but I'd rather ask.

 

That's a load of cr*p Either you're confused with a boost controller not changing boost below 4000rpm, or you've read that that the difficult bit is during the transition, not before (or after), and even then only when you've gone single or parallel twins. And it can be done even then with the EMU and EMB.

[wojtrek]

I have the greddy BCC, so I guess I have the boost cut bit covered.

 

Although it is interesting to read, that the MAP sensor is there only for fuel cut. I'd imagine that the ECU looks at both MAF and MAP reading and sort of interpolates a point in the fuel and ignition maps, but it turns out, I just learned some new stuff. Great info!

 

That load of cr*p I read either here or (probably) supraforums while looking for info about my HKS VPC, which currently sits on a shelf. The suggestion was, that whatever you do below transition point, would not affect the AFR.

 

So, just to make sure, a hypothetical situation - is it true, that altering the MAF signal might alter the ignition? for example, if I had bigger injectors, tried to lean out the mixture by lowering the MAF voltage, this might trick the ECU to thinking there's less air/boost so it could advance timing - the effect being knock or in the extreme situation blowing engine?

 

thanks again Ian, I'll start looking into Emanage!

[Ian C]

 

So, just to make sure, a hypothetical situation - is it true, that altering the MAF signal might alter the ignition? for example, if I had bigger injectors, tried to lean out the mixture by lowering the MAF voltage, this might trick the ECU to thinking there's less air/boost so it could advance timing - the effect being knock or in the extreme situation blowing engine?

 

Theoretically yes, in practice no-one's ever posted up an actual problem with this in the world of Supras. My own car runs around -30 to -40% of the airflow signal to compensate for the bigger injectors