Misfire problem

[Stonkin]

Hi guys, could do with some help please as getting a bit frustrated

 

I have a misfire problem on number 1 cylinder.

 

Some background on the problem. A few months back i took the car over to b'have for a service, when i left that day the car was misfiring and the ecu light was on. It had never done this before so i carried on with the journey knowing it would be in good hands with Charlie to look at. The service was done, including spark plug change. The misfire was still there. A couple of the coil pack connectors were in bad shape, including number 1. Charlie tried swapping a few bits over but the problem remained. We pulled back the carpets to check the ecu connections and found that when the EMU was shaken or knocked it affected the misfire and you could tell there was a link to the problem. We were both unsure which wires controlled power/spark to number 1 so simply removed the 3 connections to the EMU, sprayed them in WD40 and put them back. Strangely the problem went away and stayed that way for a couple of months.

 

A few weeks ago the misfire came back, i went to check the EMU and tried what we did before with no luck. I checked the coil pack connections, knowing they were bad, and 1 of the wires going to number 1 cylinder connection snapped from the metal connector.

 

I ordered 6 new coil pack connectors and 2 new wires to fix the ones on number 1 and these were fitted last night. The problem was still there.

 

I had a guy over helping me who knows Toyotas and Lexus's, but isnt necassarily familiar with the wiring and EMU setup on my car. He checked that there was power getting to the coil pack and there was, but there was no spark. However he did not have an osiloscope (spelling!) with him and said he would need one to check this proberly and is coming back in a couple of evenings with one. He did explain to me why it would help, something to do with just because power is getting there doesnt necassarily mean there will be a spark, i think. It did go over my head a bit as much as i tried to listen!

 

He thinks its either a plug issue (which have done less then 500 miles) or the wiring ffrom the ecu area controlling this cylinder. Personally i dont think it is plug related as it did it on the old plugs when driving to Charlie's and knowing how fiddling with the EMU before temporarily fixed it.

 

Each coil pack connector was removed while the engine running and it tried to stall, so all others seem fine. If number 1 is connected or not, its misfiring.

 

Can anyone offer any advice so i can share a bit more information with him when he comes back. Its driving me mad as i havent driven the car in ages and badly want this issue fixed once and for all, especially before Suprapod as i really dont want to miss that day.

 

Thanks for any help anyone can offer here..

Edited June 29, 2010 by Stonkin (see edit history)

[T2 MSW]

Have you checked the injector connector on no.1? I went through the same as you and checked everything numerous times, somtimes it would appear to go away and then come back. Turned out the issue was a dodgy/broken injector connector. Changed that with one of a scrap loom and all sorted.

 

Good luck, its the most annoying issue to troubleshoot isnt it

[Stonkin]

So frustrating mate!! I use the car so little as it is. What exactly am i looking to check there please mate? Is it simply a connection going to the injector? Is it obvious if its buggered.

[T2 MSW]

Yeah its easy to get to in between the intake mani and the block think they are a small brown plug that just connect onto the injector. May also be worth giving it a clean if it has any oil/dirt on it.

 

Just check its a secure fit and the clip is not broken. I was in the same boat and did not take it out every so oftern and get occational miss fire and knock control kicking in from the AEM.

[Stonkin]

Ok, thanks I will check that tonight.

 

 

 

Ive read about making sure the metal connectors on the coil pack connectors are a small enough gap so they are tight, but, with it having new wires on number 1 anyway they cant be anything to do with that.

[T2 MSW]

Yeah if they are new wires new connectors/clips then doubt its that.

 

Also have you tried swapping the coil packs round and see if its the actual pack causing the issue? Assume you know its no.1 from the colour of the plug?

[Stonkin]

Nope, i did think of that after he left. Wish we had done it now as that would be a fairly simple thing to do

[Stonkin]

Just incase it is of any relevance, when you do rev the car it holds back massively. Or is that normal with a misfire problem? I havent driven it like this but i know when it did this going over to Charlie's it was hard to go over 50/60 mph, and you had to do so very slowly and not over 2k ish revs

[T2 MSW]

That’s a serious misfire then, I would think it was a dead coilpack or ignitor if its that severe!?

[Stonkin]

Its bad, not just occasionally, its constantly there and feels like the car rocks

[T2 MSW]

IMO thats not a connector or connection issue then thats more Ignitor, coilpack or if its a single HKS DLI!?

 

or even an incorrectly gapped plug!?

 

Just my opinion though I could be wrong.

[Stonkin]

Its got BKR8EIX NGK iridiums so no gapping to be done.

 

It is a single yes, is there anything i can check to see if its the ignitor? not even sure if it has a DLI?

 

Need to log off now but will check back later this evening.

 

Thanks for your help

[T2 MSW]

You will have a better idea with the osiloscope.

 

I found it easier to get hold of know working parts and test by swapping parts out. I have a spare set of plugs and coilpacks if you need them to test with. Only issue is im down south at the minute and wont be home till next weekend.

[Stonkin]

Thats very kind of you mate. I'm going outside now to try and swap coil pack 1 to number 2 cylinder and vice versa to see if the problem moves. At least that wipes out a coil pack problem.

 

At least thats the plan, have never done it before, hopefully with my limited knowledge i can do that

[Stonkin]

I've just realised that i think i will need a spare set of coil packs to try this wont i?

 

2 10mm bolts to remove to bring the first 2 coil packs out together and i presume the screws on the coil pack release each one individually? The screws on No. 1 cylinder are so tight threy are not turning at all, just damaging the screw which i dont want to do

[T2 MSW]

If you can get any out just swap them for now to try and rule out the coil pack. The screws that hold the coil pack to the frame should not be over tightened or they will crack the casing. In your case it looks like u will have no option but to extract the screws with a screw extractor and replace then

 

I think the cages are the same so you could swap 1,2 & 3,4.

 

I recon the next issue you may have is the breather hoses are solid from the heat and they won't come off

Edited June 29, 2010 by T2 MSW (see edit history)

[Stonkin]

God i feel thick after my last post

 

Anyway, i did just that. Pulled out coil packs 1 + 2 together and 3 + 4 together and switched them round. So where number 1 was its now on cylinder 3. The screws seem to have gone very very soft, ive tried so many types of philips screw drivers and they will just knacker the screws if i try anymore. Will have to tackle that later on. Rubber pipes came off easy as they are new

 

So its all back together and now to see if no.1 is still missing or hopefully now No. 3 which will definetly mean coil pack

 

Only someone is having a horse riding lesson in the school right next to where the car is and she is very nervous and making the horse nervous, so i've been asked not to start her up just yet god damn. Report back soon.

[Stonkin]

Right, the problem stayed on cylinder 1, so definetly not the coil packs. I checked the error codes and it has come up with code 14, just about to search what that is

 

 

edit, seems to be an ignition fault. IanC wrote the following when discussing it in another post..

 

"It means the ECU isn't getting back successful ignition event reports from the igniter pack" and also said usually related to a misfire problem

 

 

So whats wrong?

Edited June 29, 2010 by Stonkin (see edit history)

[Morpheus]

Right, the problem stayed on cylinder 1, so definetly not the coil packs. I checked the error codes and it has come up with code 14, just about to search what that is

 

 

edit, seems to be an ignition fault. IanC wrote the following when discussing it in another post..

 

"It means the ECU isn't getting back successful ignition event reports from the igniter pack" and also said usually related to a misfire problem

 

 

So whats wrong?

 

I'll probably get told to stop talking crap (yet again!) but I'd get an igniter off ebay for £20 ish and swap it out. I researched this when I almost bought a GZ in February. The garage owner said that he couldn't start it but that his mechanic identified it as a common problem after jumping the battery.

 

Apparently it damaged the igniter, so I thought I'd check them out. If it's a single die-cast unit, they're as cheap as chips. If it's the black box with coil and igniter in one, they're over £300 new......but I just found this one which if it's the one you have and all else fails, seriously, it won't be on there for long and you could easily sell it for a profit if you didn't need it. I'd even take the chance for you.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220626682068&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Edited June 29, 2010 by Morpheus
Link found to possible item required (see edit history)

[Stonkin]

Cheers, just been searching about them on here. Definetly not cheap new, especially if its not that which has gone.

 

Also found a link talking about the main feed to the coilpacks behind the engine at the back not being on correctly. Where abouts is this?

 

So the ignitor pack is this black box on the right turret?

 

[Morpheus]

Yes, it's right next to the shock mount. Unplug/plug the connectors a few times to reseat the pins maybe. Don't be spraying WD40 anywhere though!

 

To be honest, it could even be mechanical, as No.1 cylinder seems to get more wear than the others since it's first in the firing order and maybe fails more times and floods. Anyway, for what it's worth, when I rebuilt the head on my 7MGE at around 120k, the only cylinder with any significant wear to the valves was No.1.

 

One intake valve had receded by a good margin and needed a new shim. 1 of 24 in No.1 cylinder.......never a bad idea to check the shims for spec. if wiring seems ok but atleast the valves can't fail to close properly if the gaps tighten to zero, ateast not without corrosion of the valve faces/seats which could eventually happen if left for too long out of spec. but perhaps enough to cause a misfire.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Morpheus (see edit history)

[T2 MSW]

That's the ignitor yes. Unfortunatly I don't have a spare of those u can try

[Stonkin]

That's the ignitor yes. Unfortunatly I don't have a spare of those u can try

 

Damn

 

Has anyone localish to Guildford or Reading got a spare one?

[Stonkin]

Just so i can rule this out, can anyone give any information about the main feed to the coilpacks behind the engine at the back. Is this an obvious plug to find and easy to get to by following the coil pack wiring?

[Konrad]

I did read your story from beggining and I'm suprised that you are messing with coil pack if correcting EMU connector did cure problem for 2 months. Logic would say to check EMU connections and/or contact IanC who prolly knows more about them then guys in EMU factory