AlanM Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I've already said, the measurements have an error associated with them - they never measure zero. A tee-total baby wouldn't always measure a zero. and? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Can speed cameras catch drink drivers? No. Makes no difference what the limit is if there is nobody to police it and I've known people who drink lots and are still be in a better position to drive (despite not doing so) than some of the dicks I encounter on the roads who can't drive when sober. Remove the drink driving thing completely and police the roads better, pull anyone who can't drive properly, sober or drunk. If someone else makes it home safely after 20 pints then they are clearly better than someone with no drink in them that crashes into their own garage. I'm against drinking and driving but do enjoy a pint in a country pub now and again, never 2 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 50mg is approx one pint Of what? Fosters Stella whiskey think you will find that is wrong,each drink has its own units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 and? ... ? And therefore if you get pulled over, after work tonight and get tested, you wouldn't measure zero... what's your point? My point is that it cannot be reduced to zero, scientifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 i feel for any poor bugger that would have to breath test me after a night of the mrs potugese specialteis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 ... ? And therefore if you get pulled over, after work tonight and get tested, you wouldn't measure zero... what's your point? My point is that it cannot be reduced to zero, scientifically. The statement was the alcohol allowance be zero, not the reading, easy enough to work out error bands for teatotal babies etc I do tend to agree with Michael ultimately and do away with speed limits as well. If you are driving recklessly, dangerously etc then be charged accordingly. If you are driving safely at 180 mph they should leave you alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 The statement was the alcohol allowance be zero, not the reading, easy enough to work out error bands for teatotal babies etc I agree with the allowance being zero, but the error bands will allow most people to have had a half-pint if I am not mistaken. I do tend to agree with Michael ultimately and do away with speed limits as well. If you are driving recklessly, dangerously etc then be charged accordingly. If you are driving safely at 180 mph they should leave you alone I agree with this too, though the police would do well to catch you at 180mph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 and to further the arguement- why have MOTs, as long as the car gets you there then thats all right, who cares if it is falling apart ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 http://www.safetravel.co.uk/EuropeDrinkDrivingLimits.html The Blood Alcohol Levels 0.0 mg per ml – Estonia, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary 0.2 mg per ml – Norway, Poland, Sweden 0.4 mg per ml - Lithuania 0.5 mg per ml - Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany (Germany is 0.3 if you’re in an accident), Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Latvia, Macedonia, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, Cyprus (North) 0.8 mg per ml – UK, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Switzerland 0.9 mg per ml - Cyprus (South) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Personally I think it should be zero, therefore much easier/cheaper to police. lower the limit to zero I don't think that would work because of this: The main issue is that the equipment used would still not read zero even if you've never had a drink in your life. I have no knowledge of this but martini doesn't usually get these things wrong. And this: It's a little unrealistic to reduce the limit to zero. You could get a ban after a small bowl of sherry trifle or some cough medicine. I hear what people are saying when they say there should be a zero tolerance, but whatever the limit is, it has to be enforceable. There needs to be at least a tolerance for those who use alcohol-based mouthwash or like eating those liquid-centred chocolates. Edit: d'oh, too late again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Yea, I was just being silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I had a friend in the states that had a breathalyser installed to his engine start management because he was caught twice drink driving but he still drove his car by asking for a pint of ice on his way out of the bar then he would blow into the tube with a mouth full of ice and eventually it would start. I think that a responsible person could easily have a couple of pints and drive home, and like some have said already I've found that most people will drink and drive until that is they’ve been caught, very rarely drink driver's re offend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kslb Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I am strongly opposed to drink driving however I do not think lowereing the legal limit will be of any benefit. I believe it would be better to introduce harsher punishment for those caught exceeding the current limit. Longer bans, larger fines and custodial sentances for first time offenders as well as repeat offenders. This would be more of a deterrant and would be more likely to make the roads safer. As for the comments about drinking at a wedding being an excuse for being over the limit the following day???? Clearly some education as to the effects of drink and self control is required as well. Just to clarify yes you should choose not to drink at a wedding or book an extra day off work so you do not have to drive the following morning! Fool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Can speed cameras catch drink drivers? No. Makes no difference what the limit is if there is nobody to police it and I've known people who drink lots and are still be in a better position to drive (despite not doing so) than some of the dicks I encounter on the roads who can't drive when sober. Remove the drink driving thing completely and police the roads better, pull anyone who can't drive properly, sober or drunk. If someone else makes it home safely after 20 pints then they are clearly better than someone with no drink in them that crashes into their own garage. I'm against drinking and driving but do enjoy a pint in a country pub now and again, never 2 though. I'm with Michael, he talks sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Are you going to not drink on the wedding day or wait until 4pm to leave the next day? We have to be realistic. Some might - most won't To everyone else on the road that wasn't at said wedding, you are still presenting the same risk/danger to them on the road as if it was just another night at the pub the day prior or whatnot. Circumstances will influence people's decision differently it would seem, but, it's still the same thing you are doing the next day and is as unfair to everyone else regardless of what the event was. I just don't think it's something that could be given a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 As for the comments about drinking at a wedding being an excuse for being over the limit the following day???? Clearly some education as to the effects of drink and self control is required as well. Just to clarify yes you should choose not to drink at a wedding or book an extra day off work so you do not have to drive the following morning! Fool! I think you are being the fool being unrealistic in your expectations. Good luck expecting a crowd of 300+ to either book an extra £40+ night in the hotel to sober up or have one designated driver per car to remain sober the night of the wedding. Foolish expectations. Really stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BazzaAlpine Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 If you are going to drive that evening stay off the booze, if you're not driving till the following morning (eg the wedding scenario) then be responsible and don't get plastered. I drove to and from my ex partners son's wedding for the whole thing. Had a sip of the bubbly for the toasts and orange juice and lemonade the rest of the evening. Not exactly hard to do if you think that: A) You don't HAVE to have a drink to have fun and B) It is a lot more accepted these days that when you are driving you stay off the drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Of what? Fosters Stella whiskey think you will find that is wrong,each drink has its own units Of course, but I've given that as a general figure so people can easily understand what 50mg represents. If you're the type of person that drinks a pint of whiskey in one go then I don't think you should have a licence full stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 How many accidents are caused by people under/around the limit? For some reason lowering the drink drive limit seems to be everyones solution to drink driving and accidents involving drink. I haven't done the leg work to put up a case here, I am merely asking a question which seems to be lost in translation. Would lowering the limit make any significant difference to the amount of people in accidents, or the amount of people caught drink driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Would lowering the limit make any significant difference to the amount of people in accidents, or the amount of people caught drink driving? I see what you're saying. In fact, lowering the limit might mean you catch more people drink driving, because the threshold for tolerance has been reduced. There will always be accidents. I'm all for natural selection, but I would rather not die as a cause of someone else's stupidity (whatever it is). I don't mind people killing themselves doing whatever it is they want to do, but just not me or my loved ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 If you take away speed limits and other regulations, then you're opening a can of worms. How hard would it be to prosecute if everything relied on people’s assumptions or opinions, with no specifics to rely on? If you’re driving along a road you’ve never driven along before, then how can you understand what the appropriate limit would be? Of course you could say much slower than a road you know well, but why leave it to chance? Speed limits are obviously contentious in some circumstances, but they give an idea of the road conditions in most cases. It’s all about rate of return. Accidents are very costly to the economy, which is why a lot of money gets ploughed into trying to reduce them. And you can’t say that driving at 180mph could be safe on a public road. At those kinds of speeds, minor issues come with significant consequences. Our roads are just too busy for those speeds to not have an impact on other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 How many accidents are caused by people under/around the limit? For some reason lowering the drink drive limit seems to be everyones solution to drink driving and accidents involving drink. I haven't done the leg work to put up a case here, I am merely asking a question which seems to be lost in translation. Would lowering the limit make any significant difference to the amount of people in accidents, or the amount of people caught drink driving? There's data that shows that in other countries that have already implemented similar legislation, accidents, in cases, have reduced by up to 20% across the board. That's not to say similar figures would be attained here though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I think the limit should be lowered to something like 20mg. As said - it can never be zero otherwise you'd get busted for driving under the influence of mouthwash, or wine gums, but 20 or 30mg would be low enough to take away any arguments about whether 1 pint, bottle or whatever is safe to drink before driving. As for the wedding argument - if you can't trust yourself to not get absolutely bladdered and be legal to drive the day after, then get the bus/train/taxi/counselling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 Another point to add, is that reducing the limit could mitigate people going into the pubs for a swift one full stop. Which in turn would eliminate that issue of people going in with the intention of having a single pint, then thinking 'screw it', and having another two or three before going home in the car. Current news articles are talking about the proposed ban significantly reducing Pubs' (etc) trade. A lot of people probably wouldn't go for that one drink after work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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