clarky666 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 As it says above, just a question i had really. I've read that in late 1997 most of the engines moved onto the VVTi setup and i've seen a few of them, albeit rarer, come up for sale now and again but it's almost exclusively been TT's. So i was wondering if there is such a thing as a 1997/8 onwards N/A VVTi engine? Reason i am asking is i saw this for sale: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250640284752 From the picture the engine looks the same as earlier models ?? Realise it could be wrongly registered as 1999 by the DVLA when in fact it's a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) Yup there is.. There extremely rare over here in supras. I suspect there would be a lot of them in japan. You can find them in the 2nd gen aristo's quite easily though Edited June 5, 2010 by Kirk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexM Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 The 2JZ-GE VVTi lump only went into the US Supra's as far as I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I tried finding one ages ago but couldnt find one cheap enough to make it worthwile.. was gonna fit it to my old NA just to be different, ended up with a TTVVTI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I tried finding one ages ago but couldnt find one cheap enough to make it worthwile.. was gonna fit it to my old NA just to be different, ended up with a TTVVTI I wouldn't worry as you'd have been much better off fitting higher lift/longer duration cams anyway, since this is all VVTI is, above a threshold oil pressure. It cleverly shifts to give a bigger cam profile above the preset pressure limit obviously proportional to engine revs. I think it gives an extra 20hp but hardly worth an engine swap as there are many better ways to achieve much more power like you did! It's also on-off too, so not that user friendly on the road and probably makes you drive like an absolute maniac once you get addicted to it! A turbo should be the icing on the cake, once all other enhancements are optimized, otherwise you're not getting nearly the power increase that you could, hence TT owner's going back to basics like better intakes, bigger piping, FMIC's and maybe porting and cams etc. or just fitting a bigger turbo when decent port matching (let alone proper valve bowl blending) could give an easy extra 100hp, though Supras aren't as bad as some less accurately matched engines from GM or Ford for example. I'm talking fully matched, throughout the intake, cylinder head and exhaust manifold/downpipe. An engine is afterall, simply an air pump that uses combustible fuel to take over the compression cycle from the starter motor and then add extra momentum. They're even making cars now that use compressed gas cylinders and no fuel atall. As long as you can keep the AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) within safe limits and the components can take it, the more airflow, the more power. The challenge then becomes the prevention of detonation from lean spots in the fuel map, hence your man Ryan for example. Turbos work well despite the incredible airflow disruption in stock engines but never get to use their full potential. Interesting question though, as I hadn't heard of an NA VVTI and I've seen hundreds for sale in choosing mine. I've got a lot of stick for paying too much but you're not just buying an engine, which I can upgrade myself to my own specification if I get bored with 'only' the 300 odd that I could easily get out of it by the time I'm finished with it. I do love a challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I wouldn't worry as you'd have been much better off fitting higher lift/longer duration cams anyway, since this is all VVTI is, above a threshold oil pressure. It cleverly shifts to give a bigger cam profile above the preset pressure limit obviously proportional to engine revs. I think it gives an extra 20hp but hardly worth an engine swap as there are many better ways to achieve much more power like you did! It's also on-off too, so not that user friendly on the road and probably makes you drive like an absolute maniac once you get addicted to it! That'd be great info if it wasn't all wrong. The VVTi setup on the Supra is an infinitely variable system controlled by pulsed solenoids, not a simple switch like VTEC. It works by advancing and retarding the intake cam across a 60degree range. What it doesn't do is switch to a different cam profile, as there isn't one. Also the peak power increase of 20bhp might not sound like much but the midrange is improved as well. Alas a lot of it was done for emissions reasons too, so no fun there. Bit of a rambling thread but it covers most of the discoveries: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=33302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Oh my word I read more of your post... when decent port matching (let alone proper valve bowl blending) could give an easy extra 100hp, 100bhp from port matching? Please tell me that's a typo and meant "almost 10, if that, especially with how well these engines are manufactured". An engine is afterall, simply an air pump that uses combustible fuel to take over the compression cycle from the starter motor and then add extra momentum. The compression cycle from the starter motor?! This isn't a Fast and the Furious film where you just say some car-related words in any old order and sound impressive, you know. They're even making cars now that use compressed gas cylinders and no fuel atall. OK perhaps it's heatstroke, it's been sunny today Turbos work well despite the incredible airflow disruption in stock engines but never get to use their full potential. I don't know where this is going... I can upgrade myself to my own specification if I get bored with 'only' the 300 odd that I could easily get out of it by the time I'm finished with it. Oh there it is, another "I'm gonna make 300bhp with my NA engine" claim. If I had a pound for each one of those I've seen over the years I'd have about £8 by now. If I had a pound for each one that actually happened I'd have £0. Don't forget to claim ludicrous economy figures as well, shoot for 40mpg. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 was the na vvti 6 speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) Sorry, I thought that I'd seen a video of VVTI working but must have been a Honda. Much info to absorb when "drinking out of a firehose" to quote Arthur C. Clarke. I stand corrected! (But not on all the points quoted below Ian). Edited June 5, 2010 by Morpheus (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Oh my word I read more of your post... 100bhp from port matching? Please tell me that's a typo and meant "almost 10, if that, especially with how well these engines are manufactured". The compression cycle from the starter motor?! This isn't a Fast and the Furious film where you just say some car-related words in any old order and sound impressive, you know. OK perhaps it's heatstroke, it's been sunny today I don't know where this is going... Oh there it is, another "I'm gonna make 300bhp with my NA engine" claim. If I had a pound for each one of those I've seen over the years I'd have about £8 by now. If I had a pound for each one that actually happened I'd have £0. Don't forget to claim ludicrous economy figures as well, shoot for 40mpg. -Ian I'm guessing you're pleased this thread isn't in technical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 was the na vvti 6 speed. the na never got a vvti engine. not in japan anyway. funny post ian, ive seen a few of bomex's posts. they are all full of crap. like the one in another thread ive just read about manu mode. The problem is he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. unfortunately its always all wrong. Newbies are going to start taking it seriously soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 is the lexus na vvti an easy swap for the standard supra na. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraHuman Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I wouldn't worry as you'd have been much better off fitting higher lift/longer duration cams anyway, since this is all VVTI is, above a threshold oil pressure. It cleverly shifts to give a bigger cam profile above the preset pressure limit obviously proportional to engine revs. I think it gives an extra 20hp but hardly worth an engine swap as there are many better ways to achieve much more power like you did! It's also on-off too, so not that user friendly on the road and probably makes you drive like an absolute maniac once you get addicted to it! A turbo should be the icing on the cake, once all other enhancements are optimized, otherwise you're not getting nearly the power increase that you could, hence TT owner's going back to basics like better intakes, bigger piping, FMIC's and maybe porting and cams etc. or just fitting a bigger turbo when decent port matching (let alone proper valve bowl blending) could give an easy extra 100hp, though Supras aren't as bad as some less accurately matched engines from GM or Ford for example. I'm talking fully matched, throughout the intake, cylinder head and exhaust manifold/downpipe. An engine is afterall, simply an air pump that uses combustible fuel to take over the compression cycle from the starter motor and then add extra momentum. They're even making cars now that use compressed gas cylinders and no fuel atall. As long as you can keep the AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) within safe limits and the components can take it, the more airflow, the more power. The challenge then becomes the prevention of detonation from lean spots in the fuel map, hence your man Ryan for example. Turbos work well despite the incredible airflow disruption in stock engines but never get to use their full potential. Interesting question though, as I hadn't heard of an NA VVTI and I've seen hundreds for sale in choosing mine. I've got a lot of stick for paying too much but you're not just buying an engine, which I can upgrade myself to my own specification if I get bored with 'only' the 300 odd that I could easily get out of it by the time I'm finished with it. I do love a challenge! What a load of absolute rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 109 posts and not much thats right, glad he never got near any car i've owned:rolleyes: Beast of B*ll*cks might be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 is the lexus na vvti an easy swap for the standard supra na. It'll be the same work up as the aristo TT swapover really with sump and wiring loom differences. You'll also have to deal with the ecu which in a mk2 aristo is in the engine bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggy147 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Ahhh these threads do make me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Seriously who the fuck is this bomex guy! Sounds worser than me when I started up on the forum! Dude you aint fooling no one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky49 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Oh come on he makes me laugh with all his 'Beast' comments. I wonder how small he felt after Reading this thread back. Hehe quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Yup there is.. There extremely rare over here in supras. I suspect there would be a lot of them in japan. You can find them in the 2nd gen aristo's quite easily though http://i29.tinypic.com/keu9hu.jpg SWEET MOTHER OF SUPRAS!!! First time seeing a vvti na! wow, thats really cool:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I spotted the on/off vvti and was going to say something but then Ian got there first and well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Glad to see you're so passionate about your Supras guys! Please correct me on everything I have said that is all wrong and I will gladly explain what I meant in each case. My apologies for ruffling your feathers gentlemen (well, you know what I mean) but I'll try to reference my comments for you, not that it will make a damn of difference but I figured that things couldn't get much worse®! You guys really need to open your minds. Insular isn't the word. One example: I already admitted that I confused the 2JZ VVTI with cam changing types and no, this isn't in technical and I promise like a good doggy never to post there, ok? Also was quoting a video poster saying that the oil pressure switch opens at whatever rpm in 2JZ VVTI. Is this not correct? I thought they all worked at higher rpm. So sue me! An engine IS an air pump. It is driven by air pressure! It uses fuel to keep going once the starter motor has done the hard work of compressing the air in as many cylinders as required to fire up on it's own. Bloody obvious. What's wrong with this statement? "Turbos work well despite the incredible airflow disruption in stock engines but never get to use their full potential". It's a basic fact when seen from the air's point of view and is obviously correct from the fact that there is always room for improvement - massive improvement with a turbo. Please forgive my overzealous hp estimate from port matching (and I did say the whole system) but I've spent the last three years studying the subject from those who do know what they are talking about, though admittedly not in regard to the 2JZ, which I did attempt to qualify but to no avail. Are you seriously disputing that 300hp can be achieved from a 3.0 engine with 4 valves per cylinder? We shall see......and as I said before with a little smiley face, I do love a challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Sorry but to re-iterate my original point here, why consider an engine swap to a VVTI NA when it involves as much work as a TT? Lest I repeat myself, I'll shut the F**k up now, as requested, I'm sure. Only trying to help save someone a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) Sorry but to re-iterate my original point here, why consider an engine swap to a VVTI NA when it involves as much work as a TT? Lest I repeat myself, I'll shut the F**k up now, as requested, I'm sure. Only trying to help save someone a waste of time. In your words... 'It is a challenge' I do know of someone considering a VVTI na lump throttle bodies.... As far as the gas car goes, seen it before, all good and well, but has a range of about 'around the block and push' I'm far more interested in electric options or hydrogen (which in my case probably isn't a good idea) Edited June 5, 2010 by JustGav (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Yea, and also whats the point of releasing a na with vvti when tuners can do it? Intake came timing which gives more low end torque and helps larger turbos cars spool earlier (makes toyota look kind of desperate to me to sell the supras in the later years, info of mkivsupra.net) Why go vvti, there really was no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Lest I repeat myself, I'll shut the F**k up now, as requested, I'm sure. Only trying to help save someone a waste of time. I typed a long reply to this, but considered it a little harsh. As you're a newbie, will summarise: muahaaahhaaa Please say you are winding us up and not wasting OUR time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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