Not Starting Properly!!!!

[ihavenone]

Hi all,

 

I have been having a problem with my supra for about a month now, and it seems to be deteriorating. I try and start it in the morning and I get a click like a dead battery (with all the lights on the dash board) followed by a low pitch humming noise if I hold the key there.

 

It will however eventually start, but only after a few minutes of persistence by me. Connecting it up to another battery doesn't help and I have had the battery and alternator tested, of which they are both fine.

 

It is worse when the car is cold and will usually start first time just after use, but this is not guaranteed, but it has recently started first time in the morning and then not wanted to in the afternoon.

 

I see other people have had similar issues, only I have charged the battery and still I have the issue (no difference at all), it runs fine when started, will sometimes cut out before fully starting only no smoke comes out the exhaust at this stage.

 

Any ideas, I really need some help! Have tried to get some diagnostic equipment by Toyota won't touch imports and tuning shops don't have the stuff I need. I have been told to get it into "blink mode", whatever that is. Thanking you in advance

[Jas]

Possibly the starter motor. 'Clicking' and gradual deterioration is a common sign its in need of a refurb.

 

 

im sure there are a few threads on this topic. whack it into the search and see what pops up.

[stevie_b]

Probably starter motor contacts, very common. Have a look here: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=219380

[ihavenone]

Thanks, I will look into getting a refurb

[Morpheus]

Hi all,

 

I have been having a problem with my supra for about a month now, and it seems to be deteriorating. I try and start it in the morning and I get a click like a dead battery (with all the lights on the dash board) followed by a low pitch humming noise if I hold the key there.

 

It will however eventually start, but only after a few minutes of persistence by me. Connecting it up to another battery doesn't help and I have had the battery and alternator tested, of which they are both fine.

 

It is worse when the car is cold and will usually start first time just after use, but this is not guaranteed, but it has recently started first time in the morning and then not wanted to in the afternoon.

 

I see other people have had similar issues, only I have charged the battery and still I have the issue (no difference at all), it runs fine when started, will sometimes cut out before fully starting only no smoke comes out the exhaust at this stage.

 

Any ideas, I really need some help! Have tried to get some diagnostic equipment by Toyota won't touch imports and tuning shops don't have the stuff I need. I have been told to get it into "blink mode", whatever that is. Thanking you in advance

 

Hi, sounds like you definitely have a worn solenoid contact which unfortunately will need replacing. Now, depending on the model, someone on ebay can supply a new kit for about £15-20 and save a packet if you do it yourself.

 

Do not even consider any other diagnosis before addressing this first, as it's a classic case. They all do it eventually. It is not the motor (the humming noise you shouldn't hear) as they have four brushes and you'd have to run the thing all day and night for months to wear it out.

 

As for the smoke, it will just be unburnt fuel from not firing properly if you let off the ignition before it fires up from repeated attempts where it engages but out of sheer habit, you try again when you don't need to!

 

In the meantime, having a fully charged battery will help the spark jump better but it's really not an issue unless it's low.

 

Obviously, (unless you've never experienced it before), multiple clicks with one turn of the key and dimming dash lights is a flat battery.

 

The solenoid is the electromagnetic 'coil and pin' contact that engages the motor pinion with the flywheel or flexplate for an auto. They could easily design the solenoid to never fail but where's the fun in that? (Or the profit.......).

 

Every time you start the car, a spark has to arc between two contacts and naturally, they corrode from repeated arcing. Once they get to your stage, the volts/amps available and the temperature and humidity will all be critical, as you've discovered!

 

Probably ranks as the number one most frustrating car fault, since, as you say, once started it runs normally.

 

So, you'll need to get the motor off and replace the copper contact and pin electrode but definitely not the motor at this stage.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Morpheus
typo (see edit history)

[Morpheus]

Hi again, just seen your car and it's looking great with a splash of colour to the engine bay! Makes a big impact!

 

You can see the starter unit under the intake manifold on the nearside at the back of the engine and there's room to get in there, just. Looks an easyish job if you have the tools. Mine has clicked on occasion but only after a week in the garage.

 

I forgot to mention, be very careful in future, as although you have the cheaper to replace igniter like mine, jumping a TT and presumably an NA can fry the igniter, (in black box ontop of nearside suspension mount for GZ and cast aluminium for NA, maybe later TT's) and you do NOT wan't to do that as it can also damage the ECU in the process.

 

Igniters for the GZ's are about £350 new (apparently) and like gold dust on ebay. The reason I know this is because the GZ that I was going to buy had a blown igniter and the garage hadn't managed to find a used replacement, (which I did within minutes on ebay but it sold before I could tell him to buy it). He mentioned that his mechanic said that the ECU can also be damaged so I looked for an NA to convert later if I wanted to. Having said this, on later models, they changed the igniter to allow it to be swapped out on it's own and they're easily available on ebay for £20ish.

 

Also (unrelated to this problem) if you ever need to jump the car with another battery, connect positives first directly then negative to the car chassis somewhere (any bare metal away from wiring etc. such as a bracket) and not to the car battery directly.

 

This lowers the chance of blowing anything sensitive (ooer!) but it's main reason is to prevent explosion from hydrogen gas from the battery as the jumplead sparks when it touches, not that it's ever going to happen but for what it's worth, that's why. Also, it's better to replace the battery and charge it than to jump it if you have two, as although you're only connecting in parallel, the doubled capacity of two batteries does increase the peak amps available, as it doesn't draw or dip as much as a single one during startup, hence the issue of blowing igniters that may be sensitive to excessive amps.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Morpheus (see edit history)

[Morpheus]

Here you go, ebay link to item required but ask seller for correct part.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-STARTER-MOTOR-REPAIR-KIT-ALL-MODELS-VARIANTS-/290438923516?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item439f8244fc

[SupraDan24]

Click on Stevie-b's link if you havent already, it has a link on it to a repair kit for the starter. Theres also a sticky somewhere which takes you through step by step how best to remove the starter and replace the copper contacts. Its not a hard job, although getting the starter off can be a bit of a kn*b apparently.

[AndyT]

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=86128

Have a look through this mate.

[Morpheus]

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=86128

Have a look through this mate.

 

Hi, you gave the link to the auto box info that someone just sent me, funnily enough!