a98pmalcolm Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Hay all. Sorry another thread but an issuee im not really sure on how to deal with this so im after some opinions and maybe some "sales good act" advice. Ok as some of you know i recently fitted a Rockford Fosgate sub, wiring kit with an alpine amp, all bought from the same shop at the same time. About 2 weeks ago i was driving listening to music then a burning smell appeared and a "zip pop" kinda sound happend and the amp was dead. So i went back to mine to find that the 2 20amp fuses had poped. So i replaced them and the the amp fired up fine but the sub was buggered! So i unscrewed the sub, took it out and a massive woft of smoke came out with it! So straight away i think the sub as gone faulty, so the following tuesday i return the sub for them to send off to Rockford Fosgate! I got a call a week later to tell me the sub wont be under warrentee as they say its been "missused" (god knows how its been missused, im not playing tenis with the dam thing) So i went to the shop i bought it from and the Rockford Fosgate rep was there when i turned up for them to tell me its not warrentee the voice coil has cooked but they will give me a new one for £100 isntead of £180!! ITS 2 WEEKS OLD CHRIST SAKE !! So as you can imagine i wasnt to impressed. The Rockford Fosgate rep suggested it could be the Apline amp, so thats at the shop for testing at the moe. But what if the amp is fine and they refuse to exchange under warrentee? Now some of you most probly thinking "u had it too loud" But the max power of the sub is 800 W and the max power of the amp is 700W so its a less powerful amp than sub BUT i have all setting turned no more than 1/2 way to keep clearly within the RMS of 400W...... So its not my fault inthe slightest (as well as my mate at another audio place feels) and im discusseded in the way this has been delt with. I just want my money back now, if not at least an exchange of a new sub and i will sell on as i want nothing to do with this store i bought it from, from now on!!! And i will only buy from my very helpful mate at his place! Sorry its alot to read but advice would be fantastic!! Thanks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sachs Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 CarAudioCentre by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave17 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 They have to take it back under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/DG_182935 It's not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Voice coils will burn out, due to two main reasons. Over powering or under powering. Was the sub kicking hard at the time of the failure and was the volume up high? Also what rating was the amp,and how was it set up. What channel amp was it and did you have the gain turned right up as the sub needs to be warn in before using it for big bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Also what was the rms rating on the sub not the peak rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 Voice coils will burn out, due to two main reasons. Over powering or under powering. Was the sub kicking hard at the time of the failure and was the volume up high? Also what rating was the amp,and how was it set up. What channel amp was it and did you have the gain turned right up as the sub needs to be warn in before using it for big bass. all settings on the amp were less than 1/2 way on the knobs. The sub sounds nice and crisp and want destorting! It wasnt at its loudest but nor quietest! Details on amp: http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/5624.html And deatails on the sub: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=4&series_id=31&family_id=55&item_id=108285&locale=en_US&p_status= As you can see even the RMS on the amp is lower on than the subs RMS And no its was bought from autotronix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 If its as you have said mate, then it should not have failed. Is the amp still working? If it is it may be the fact that due to the amp being a single chanel 2ohm amp designed for running a sub, That they sub itself was not up to the job being a 4 ohm. IIRC the lower the ohm rating the more its going to make the sub kick. My vibe setup which was stolen was a great example 1ohm mono amp. This thing killed quite a few subs that were not up to the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 If its as you have said mate, then it should not have failed. Is the amp still working? If it is it may be the fact that due to the amp being a single chanel 2ohm amp designed for running a sub, That they sub itself was not up to the job being a 4 ohm. IIRC the lower the ohm rating the more its going to make the sub kick. My vibe setup which was stolen was a great example 1ohm mono amp. This thing killed quite a few subs that were not up to the job. the sub can be set up in 2 ohm so i wired it up 2 ohm... they showed me how as it was in the instructions of the sub... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Could be down to the sub just failing then mate, if the amps fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman00123 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 That sucks, I would definitely challenge the warranty mate. Although that 'burning' smell is a sign of the coils melting due to them being pushed too hard, got this with my subs at first but if you turn them down for a bit they should be perfectly fine All I can say is I ran 2 JBL GT5's (£40 each) off a JL Audio 1000/1 amp and all I've managed to blow is the fuse before the amp! So if that sub has blown from a 350W RMS amp then Rockford seriously need to look at those subs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Sounds to me like the sub wasn't wired properly for the ohm rating of the amp. If you followed the instructions and took pics of it before sending then I would say you are absolutely fine bud. In that case it will either be a faulty Amp or a faulty Sub. -ive to -ive, +ive to +ive is how mine is setup iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Sounds to me like the sub wasn't wired properly for the ohm rating of the amp. If you followed the instructions and took pics of it before sending then I would say you are absolutely fine bud. In that case it will either be a faulty Amp or a faulty Sub. -ive to -ive, +ive to +ive is how mine is setup iirc. thats rite mate thats how i wired it to be 2ohm! Im goin to have to see what they say about the amp! but as u guys said it blew on an 350rms amp (when its a 400rms sub) there is issues! If they say the amp is fine im just goin to have to say theres an issue with the sub!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Rockford Fosgate stuff is overrated IMO. I've seen their subs fail before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest damo1 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 IF YOU WANT I HAVE A ROCKFORD FOSGATE AMP THAT I DONT USE AS IM RUNNING A KENWOOD YOUR FOR £50... PLUS £5 POSTAGE its a 600watt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I got a call a week later to tell me the sub wont be under warrentee as they say its been "missused" (god knows how its been missused, im not playing tenis with the dam thing) It's tricky with electrical things. From the shop's point of view, they want to know if you've done anything silly when connecting it up. I'm not saying you have, I'm just trying to give an objective view of the situation. They have to take it back under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/DG_182935 It's not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality. The website doesn't go into any details about electrical goods, and I would guess they muddy the water a bit. If something is electrically damaged, it's hard for a consumer or a shop to tell how it was damaged, i.e. was it because of faulty manufacturing, or was it because someone connected it incorrectly across a high current source "just to check that it worked, innit" . Having said that, IIRC the Sale of Goods Act within the first 6 months puts the burden of proof on the retailer to prove that the item wasn't faulty, rather than the consumer to prove that it was faulty. If correct, this is clearly in the OP's favour. Sounds to me like the sub wasn't wired properly for the ohm rating of the amp. If you followed the instructions and took pics of it before sending then I would say you are absolutely fine bud. This is key, and I think it's why the shop is reluctant to refund you. If you're competent with ICE and in-car electrical work and you're sure you connected it up correctly, then I would pursue this. Give the shop written details of how you connected it up so you can prove to them you're not a numpty with electrics (no offence, just seeing it from their POV). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dive_popo Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I had a Focal 38 cm sub, with my 6 channel amp (4 channels for speakers, and 2 channels bridged for the sub) and it burned, It was a 450w rms, and the 2 bridged channels gave 600 rms Then I bought a Pioneer 30cm 400w rms and I have it since 2007 on the same amp and it works perfectly.... (and I like big bass) Focal = 300€ Pioneer 109€ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraP-Z Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 The Rockford Fosgate is definately overrated, but nvm that. The sub you have is dual 4 ohm so wiring it like this: +ive to +ive, -ive to -ive on the sub, and then run a wire from 1 negative and 1 positive straight to the amp (like shown in pic) This produces a 2 ohm load on the amplifier - which is what you said you did. Was all other wiring correct? Grounding (May have shorted? But that should only have blown the fuses and not anything else) Otherwise you need to go back to the shop - you're entitled to a refund, or appropriate replacement. Theres no way you have misused any of that equipment as the amps rms rating is lower than the sub - so they cant play that card either. Even if you did put the gain more than halfway (which you didnt) it wouldnt have caused damage like that. I agree with Stevie B and everyone else on this thread for that matter...you're not in the wrong here - most probably a faulty amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 thats exactly how i wired the amp SupraP-Z! I not fused on a refund just a replacement! I have a mate that will buy it if i get the replacement. Im a retail manager myself and no way would i be like this to one of my customers! You all have had very simler views also being the same as mine! Thankyou all for the advice! I will let you know how i get on with this subject! Any more opinions feel free to post up as i will check this regularly! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 They said you missused it... Can they provide proof of this and tell you exactly how you missused it? If not then, so long as you show them the set-up and how it was used, they should exchange it under the sales of goods act. Surely when you bought it from the shop you talked to them about what set up you were after and why you chose the combination you did? Most places, if not all of them, will recommend a sub and amp package to best suit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 This is what confuses me about ice. If I don't know what goes into a system and get it fitted professionally why the hell would they fit stuff that can be blown up? I would expect the head unit to match the system and not be able to blow components at any setting I input. Am I being extremely naive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a98pmalcolm Posted June 5, 2010 Author Share Posted June 5, 2010 what confusses me is that how a less powerful amp could blow a more powerful sub up! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Speakers will be more likely to blow by being powered with an underpoered amp due to clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraP-Z Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 This is what confuses me about ice. If I don't know what goes into a system and get it fitted professionally why the hell would they fit stuff that can be blown up? I would expect the head unit to match the system and not be able to blow components at any setting I input. Am I being extremely naive? Yes Problem is even the "professional installers" make a pigs ear out of it half the time, and when it does go wrong, they refuse to take the blame! Thats why from the start (even when i didnt no much about car audio) i matched evrything up and installed it all myself and then checked it over a million times (literally). You then have time to mess about with the gain settings on your amp and volume on your headunit to find what works best for your system, and other settings - phase, low pass and high pass filters, subsonic range etc. Speakers will be more likely to blow by being powered with an underpoered amp due to clipping. Correct, but thats only when you are pushing the amp past its limits...there is no reason for e.g a 500rms amp cannot power a 1000rms subwoofer with no problems as long as the gains and levels are set up to a sensible level and you dont push the limits. (which im sure you already knew ) Anyway good luck with it all Paul, hope you can get it sorted asap mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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