nevins Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Always makes me laugh about suposed bodges, Ive never removed a brace for screamer pipe etc but i have had one in my hand and the gauge of the metal isnt exactly massive, I cant see it doing much, and i very much doubt it is life threatening.. What about the other bodges that are now the norm, like removing the ali bar at the front when fitting certain bumpers or if your intercooler is two big.. Ide say removing the tiebar from the chassis legs is much more dangerous to the car and yourselves. Or removing the brace in the trans tunnel because your exhaust knocks it, seen that alot. Another bodge ive seen a lot of is the water neck that the top rad hose goes on to has a pipe joining the two unused pipes together. But is it really a bodge? it does work, sure it would look better if the pipes were removed then welded up and then polished so you couldnt tell they had been there but they work just the same, in fact exactly the same.. If the gain outweighs the loss then at some point it will become acceptable. (to Some) There is always gonna be different ways of doing things some cheaper than others, if your loaded then go for it, if you dont have loads of cash then you have to compromise, I think there is room for both.. However some of the stuff on lees is amature at best looking at the pics.. So if you paid out the amount that lee has and had the hassle he has had you would accept this and just say its fine no need to worry about anything? I doubt this very much you would be as upset as he is. He was unaware of any of this and believed the car has had quality work done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I agree Jamie, its just the gain outweighing the loss etc, ide say saving the guy 150 for a modified screamer is to me outweighing the loss, but then 150 is a lot of money to me at the mo, maybe not to you which is why youd have it modified 'properly' The fuel system and oil drain are shocking, If i had of done that you wouldnt be able to see the power lines or the extra fuel lines in the boot, it would be run around the tank and into the tank via a nice 45deg fitting and the top would fit undamaged.. the Fuel system and oil drain.. well.... start again ide say.. No excuse for that to be fair.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 On the oil drain, all that was needed was to un bolt the housing and turn it and bolt it back up, job done and no need to angle grind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 So if you paid out the amount that lee has and had the hassle he has had you would accept this and just say its fine no need to worry about anything? I doubt this very much you would be as upset as he is. He was unaware of any of this and believed the car has had quality work done to it. Out of interest what was the bill???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 On the oil drain, all that was needed was to un bolt the housing and turn it and bolt it back up, job done and no need to angle grind it. The housing is almost touching the alloy drain, whichever way you turn it, that housing glows red hot, the drain needs completley re-fabbing using pipe and not the bulky aeroquip fitting, that would allow some heat wrap to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 So if you paid out the amount that lee has and had the hassle he has had you would accept this and just say its fine no need to worry about anything? I doubt this very much you would be as upset as he is. He was unaware of any of this and believed the car has had quality work done to it. I dont know what he paid bud, Im sure hes been ripped off and if it were me ide be fuming yes.. however im sure the garage would say that he got it done the cheapest way for him.. How would Lee have felt if the bill was 2k more? Luckily for Lee hes got a load of guys that know what they are doing and hes not paying hourly rate so the new job will be spot on for him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 from what lee has said hes close to 25k on the car hence the reason for him being so annoyed with the quality of work done to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 25kinc buying the car? surley not in parts and labour? Wouldnt fixing the car yourselves hinder any legal action? As they could just deny it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Not really as if he has lost faith in the company and see them as not fit to work on the vehicle he is within his rights to take the vehicle to be inspected and repaired by another source. As long as a report of the work and evidence is collected he should be fine. I have had to do alot of this type of work in the past. Once a report is put together a duplicate can be handed to the company and they can accept the work carried out is at fault, and then they can offer to rectify this and Lee is within his rights to request the vehicle to be repaired by a third party. They can refuse and then it ends up a legal case and can take a long period of time to be sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazB Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 How would Lee have felt if the bill was 2k more? Probably good if the actually car ran as it should and he didn't have all this hassle for a saving of 2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I thought it was very normal on here to block pipes (when they require blocking) by putting a large screw in the tube and tightening it up so its secure? As for the damage to pulleys etc... when my tensioner broke it caused almost exactly same damage, crank pulley gone, pulleys damaged, cam belt shredded and jumped 4 teeth. That was on my NA though. Dont know bout rest of it, but least you can mvoe the car forward now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Thats my point Tony, if someone were to dare slag this car off they would be slaughtered especially if you knew who built it (no they are not a trader on here, far bigger than that) so because a very well known tuner does it then does that make it ok???? Out of interest EXACTLY what do those braces do:search: Looking at it, they support the subframe at the point where the lower wishbone rear leg bolts to it and stop the lower wishbone rear leg IB pickup from moving under braking and heavy cornering. Only by doing a proper finite element analysis would you be able to tell how much it's moving without them. Till that work is done, blindly removing them is just taking a gamble on what the suspension / wheel is doing when under heavy load. Always makes me laugh about suposed bodges, Ive never removed a brace for screamer pipe etc but i have had one in my hand and the gauge of the metal isnt exactly massive, I cant see it doing much, and i very much doubt it is life threatening.. The fact that the upper of the two braces is only thin doesn't mean it's not doing anything. I have a tool that I made out of 0.8mm thick aluminium sheet that I use for bracing the flywheel when I undo / torque the crankshaft pulley bolt (tightest bolt on the car), yet it does the job fine. What about the other bodges that are now the norm, like removing the ali bar at the front when fitting certain bumpers or if your intercooler is two big.. Ide say removing the tiebar from the chassis legs is much more dangerous to the car and yourselves. Definitely a bodge, especially as it's a safey item. Or removing the brace in the trans tunnel because your exhaust knocks it, seen that alot. Still a bodge, should buy / make an exhaust that fits. Another bodge ive seen a lot of is the water neck that the top rad hose goes on to has a pipe joining the two unused pipes together. But is it really a bodge? it does work, sure it would look better if the pipes were removed then welded up and then polished so you couldnt tell they had been there but they work just the same, in fact exactly the same.. Still a bodge. The correct way to do it would be to buy / make an elbow without the holes. The only excuse I can see for leaving them there is that you might want to run a water cooled turbo in the future, but just fitting a pipe in between them is still pretty cruddy engineering IMHO. If the gain outweighs the loss then at some point it will become acceptable. (to Some) There is always gonna be different ways of doing things some cheaper than others, if your loaded then go for it, if you dont have loads of cash then you have to compromise, I think there is room for both.. I totally agree that different sized budgets will result in different levels of quality. What makes me laugh is when you see some of these things on peoples cars but everyone thinks it's "top quality". I guess it's down to perception, and what individual peoples experience of what's what is, but also driven by the price of the car. Not many people will spend £1000 on an exhaust that fits when they can buy one for £400 that just needs the brace removing on a car that can cost as little as £3000 to start with. I always ask myself when I'm tempted to cut a corner, if it was a Veyron, how would I do it? It usually results in also being 'the expensive way'. Anyway back to the business in hand. Other than rubbing in lots of aftersun, how did you get on today chaps??? (Great club spirit by the way guys. Awesome stuff!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDModified Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) Gents. There are some things there that are unaccepetable which I will not try to defend and would be considered a mistake on our part and would be covered by warranty. There are some others things which are cheap fixes and Lee pressing the point on saving money due to difficulties with the build. What needs to be pointed out is that Lee purchased another Supra with a very cheap setup but loads of mods, it failed due to a knocking bottom end, we were instructed to use parts from that car to build the new one, lot of parts were dissmissed from use on our recommendations, some were not. The complete fuel system we explained to Lee was not right, we were informed to use it regardless as costs had got out of hand and to put it back how we found it removed from the old car. Our conversations on these issues we noted timed and dated because of the nature of them. The fuel system including the tank setup is not the only part. There are a list of things Lee would make us responsible for including a failed crank pulley (a known and previously experienced issue) which simply are'nt right. Im aware me posting could turn into a silly tit for tat slanging match, so I wont post again, I will monitor for legal reasons. There are other reasons and recorded information that prevents me from going into too much detail, so I will simply monitor and encourage Lee to contact me for assistance. James TGT Edited May 23, 2010 by JDModified (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Which legal reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Which legal reasons? Standard company procedures nowadays even if you have no plan to proceed with any legal route at that time you still are held accountable for what you have previously said hence no more comments, especially if the fuel pump bit is as the company says as its been put on here in my view as in the company is to blame for all those Mods / bodges? theres always 2 sides to every story though and to be honest in this case i'd just like to see a working car for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 theres always 2 sides to every story though and to be honest in this case i'd just like to see a working car for the guy. that has to be the best comment posted.this was exactly the reason why i posted up for helping him out.i hope lee does make contact with them to sort something out.The problem is he has lost any faith in them.As he has been without his car for so long im sure all he wants is to be able to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Wow, only just checked this and am amazed by the replys! Don't remember me saying I can't afford the build so cut where possible! But ok. Luckily I have near enough every email sent in my inbox since the build pretty much started for reference, also a reason if you can't pm me as my inbox is 98 percent full!! I do not remember ANYTHING being mentioned about the fuel system being a problem? And considering it was off another car that mean it was removed and then fitted to my car the way it was. Also then in your hands to inform me of no fuel filter? Before the build even started I made it clear my car knowledge was limited so was goin on recommendations and advice, as a professional act then advice on what to be done should of been carried out. I remember when picking the car up I had the walk round explaining things like 'o this makes that noise and that lights on' biggest annoyance was where the turbo was changed and the following comment ' you may hear a rubbing now and again where the turbo is so big the down pipe is rubbing in the fire barrier' no mention of this before I went to collect the car I've wrote down all expenses for this build, parts, labour, buying new parts to replace bits and its around 25k NOT including buying the car. I have lost faith in the builder and I'm having some one more compitant do the communicating to the garage for me. So much is wrong with this car it makes me not want it, to think my life was at risk with driving it makes me feel sick as rarely was I driving on my own so then put them at risk! Its discusting! Feels like even if we sort the engine out there is stil so much to sort, new fuel lines ect and as I mentioned before all expense I'm not wanting to pay but kinda have to! The bits for the weekend already hit 300 quid, another 100 when I had to sort the leaking gear box! Just feels like this is only the beginning, ok this is getting sorted now and I can't express how much I appreciate it but what's next? Can't keep expecting favours when some thing else goes wrong, haven't even seen the inside of the engine :/ Can't say thank you enough tho guys! Even had my mum in tears because she can't believe the way you all pulled together to help me out as she knows this has caused me nothing but hell for over a year! Her words were I've never met such amazing people in all my life, you have friends there for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Good for you Lee - either way, you WILL get your car sorted dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 you have friends there for life Bang on there mate, the club spirit is fantastic there, really is something to be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bullitt Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 theres always 2 sides to every story though and to be honest in this case i'd just like to see a working car for the guy. Me too but I for one have first hand experience with this company, just see the disputes section. What makes this worse is that shortly after my dispute was opened my pm'ed box came alive:Pling: Unfortunately I didn't have enough evidence to back up my dispute due to being in Jersey and not seeing the car first hand, some you win & some you loose. I guess it's just the attitude that gets to people, lesson learnt tho Lee I'm so sorry to hear about this, and hope you get it sorted soon. I remember chatting with you about this build a while back, maybe a call to BBC Rogue Traders is worth a shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33 Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 This is my problem I'm not the kind of guy who ideally wants to take legal action and have a long drawn out court case and possibly ruin people involved business ect so would like to sort it in best way possible be it money my way to rectify the problems and hasstle! I can't expect the guys to carry on doin this for free and they have travelled a long distance so feel they shud be able to claim fuel costs at least! But just have to see what kind of agreement can be made if not then legal action will be the only option which by the sounds of it the garage wouldn't want with the things found. Just have to see I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 This is my problem I'm not the kind of guy who ideally wants to take legal action and have a long drawn out court case and possibly ruin people involved business ect so would like to sort it in best way possible be it money my way to rectify the problems and hasstle! I can't expect the guys to carry on doin this for free and they have travelled a long distance so feel they shud be able to claim fuel costs at least! But just have to see what kind of agreement can be made if not then legal action will be the only option which by the sounds of it the garage wouldn't want with the things found. Just have to see I guess how much did you pay in labour and what was if for? You can expect them the refund any money you paid towards the engine rebuild or installing of the engine/box imo but i would ask for a refund of the single install if you want to avoid court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgyRog Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Pm sent to you Lee, Might be worth a call to VOSA and get an independant inspection before the car is stripped any further. Obviously the crankpulley has let go and caused the damage around the front of the engine, any reason given for the way in which it failed would be conjecture and as such wont help your case at this stage. In some ways its lucky the crankpulley let go before something else went, causing major injury to you or your passenger or other road users. Good Luck with this mate, hope to see you on the next work session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33 Posted June 7, 2010 Author Share Posted June 7, 2010 Just out of interest, now all the things have been found and pics to show the work that needs doing would there be any one interested in buying the car to finish the work themselves?! Had a bit of a financial down turn and that's why I haven't been able to buy the few parts needed to get it all together. I have a crank pully, cam belt and fuel filter so there only bits off the top of my head that's needed is braided fuel lines, crank position sensor and a new fitting for the oil line for the turbo. PM me if your generally interested, I'm not goin to give her away as its only a couple 100 quid fix but every thing is for sale at the right price Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Couple of hundred to fix? writing that wont do your claim against a certain garage any good. Sorry to be harsh but there is no guarantee that engine will be any good now it lost oil pressure. Edited June 7, 2010 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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