MORE POWER (but not too much!)

[hackin_n_bashin]

Right guys,

 

I was lucky enough to take a ride out in a 410bhp supra, and, due to the 2nd car being built in my garage, have decided that 400 is not enough.

 

Read up on most threads now, and I'd like sensible suggestions on getting my engine to 500 minimum, but without crippling my finances for the other motor finished sometime before I die.

 

The tt engine is coming from jurgen, hopefully in about a month, so want to start a list of upgrades to get in the meantime.

 

Most suggestion welcome.

 

Cheers guys

 

Adam

[tooquicktostop]

you will have to ditch the stock twins to get 500 BHP, big money needed compared to a good BPU, I would do that first

[scotty71]

You should have guessed I will reply first...EDIT lol second remove that roof spoiler it does not really "make it go faster":d So your looking at 500 brake then?? You aint half chucking the cash at it

[Homer]

For 500bhp you'll be looking at "single turbo" conversions. They are frightenly expensive to do from a BPU TT.

 

Any specs on the car? Gearbox, mods, etc?

[Lbm]

What will the difference be (and don't say 100bhp) between 400 and 500 horses, in terms of real world acceleration & top speed on a supra?

 

I'm now off to kill myself as I've actually just typed the phrase real world.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Lbm (see edit history)

[hackin_n_bashin]

Want to stay auto, car is pretty standard na, not wanting trac cont or abs.

 

Want some low end grunt too, engines aren't really my ting, I'm still trying to get my head round a chevy V8!

 

Realistic budget of £6k for engine and trans mods

[hackin_n_bashin]

Had a play in a 400bhp ultima, and a 550 one, the difference was very noticeable!

 

(That's why I'm aiming for 600 in mine!)

[Lude]

hmm i used to wonder if you could tell the difference between 500-900BHP,

 

as anything over 500 has surely gota feel stupid,

 

im at BPU now, 380/400BHP.

 

 

 

ive gon from 200BHP car, to 300, then 400,

 

 

you can notice the power difference,

 

 

but i think a lot if the "feeling" is on what levels of boost your running.

 

e.g. my 200 BHP 200sx 1.8 at 15PSI felt quicker than my 3 litre TT 300zx on 10PSI.

 

but the 300zx was just more brute power really. if i turned the boost up on that then that would have been more noticable.

[T2 MSW]

You will be supprised how used to it your get. When mine got to 500 it felt quick then I got used to it. Now its at 600 and it feels fast but im used to it again and you want more and more

[tooquicktostop]

Had a play in a 400bhp ultima, and a 550 one, the difference was very noticeable!

 

(That's why I'm aiming for 600 in mine!)

 

6K for NA Auto to 600BHP Single is not going to happen so you need to think about your goals again

 

For a true 600 BHP your Auto box would fail

 

Get to BPU and enjoy as you have to think about suspension, brakes etc etc along with extra power, would be better getting a TT BPU and selling your NA IMO

[hackin_n_bashin]

600's in the ultima.

 

I want an aerotop, that was the reason for getting the car, guess I should've been a hairdresser!! (The ults a can am!!)

 

Suspensions next on the list, brakes are just about delt with.

 

I was wondering if a good set of hybrids, running higher boost would get me there with a good ecu and mods would get me there or there abouts.

[Homer]

A hybrid setup will get you to 450bhp with all supporting mods, I don't recall anyone getting more even with masses of money spent and a top end ECU. Hybrids in real terms will only net another 20-25bhp over the stock turbos.

[T2 MSW]

Do some searching on the forum but a set of hybrids and a decent well mapped ECU will struggle to get you past the 450 ish mark.

 

The auto box as previously mentioned will be a weak point and bound to start slipping

[Scott]

Regardless of what you want to do you need to get rid of the N/A and get a TT aerotop IMO. N/A-T will be pricey if looking for 500hp.

 

Based on a TT

 

Turbo Kit - Hybrids are a waste of money, for 1k more you can have a decent single. To make use of the potential of REAL hybrids (not just UK spec) you need all the supporting mods of a single anyway. £1.5-3k

 

Fuelling - For 500hp you are going to need 600cc + injectors. Drop in's are around £450-£600. Fuel Pump approx £100

 

ECU & Mapping - Piggyback will be around £800 all in AFAIK, Stand alone will be anything up to £2k all in.

 

Autobox - Not sure how much the boost logic boxes are but I think they are cheaper than a 6spd swap. 6spd swaps are approx £3k

 

Maintenence bits - Side mount intercooler will need to be decent, if not budget another £600 for one. New belts and seals are a good choice, can work out costly in labour though.

 

You can do N/A-T on a shoestring budget but I wouldn't advise it, and you certainly won't manage it with a 500hp goal in mind. 300hp maybe

 

Good luck

 

Edit: There is LOADS of stuff that I have missed out. I just wanted to point out the main bits and bobs required.

[hackin_n_bashin]

So the whibitz stage 4 kit, with an approx 420bhp goes for around £1400, so another 80-100 bhp for £4000 is unrealistic?

 

I understand about the autobox, an that will be something else to sort, maybe a boostlogic or something along those lines

[hackin_n_bashin]

Regardless of what you want to do you need to get rid of the N/A and get a TT aerotop IMO. N/A-T will be pricey if looking for 500hp.

 

Based on a TT

 

Turbo Kit - Hybrids are a waste of money, for 1k more you can have a decent single. To make use of the potential of REAL hybrids (not just UK spec) you need all the supporting mods of a single anyway. £1.5-3k

 

Fuelling - For 500hp you are going to need 600cc + injectors. Drop in's are around £450-£600. Fuel Pump approx £100

 

ECU & Mapping - Piggyback will be around £800 all in AFAIK, Stand alone will be anything up to £2k all in.

 

Autobox - Not sure how much the boost logic boxes are but I think they are cheaper than a 6spd swap. 6spd swaps are approx £3k

 

Maintenence bits - Side mount intercooler will need to be decent, if not budget another £600 for one. New belts and seals are a good choice, can work out costly in labour though.

 

You can do N/A-T on a shoestring budget but I wouldn't advise it, and you certainly won't manage it with a 500hp goal in mind. 300hp maybe

 

Good luck

 

Edit: There is LOADS of stuff that I have missed out. I just wanted to point out the main bits and bobs required.

 

I'm not using the na engine or drivetrain as a base, or have I got the wrong end of the stick

 

And its the "stuff that I'm after the info on, most of it is in project threads I've read

Edited April 26, 2010 by hackin_n_bashin (see edit history)

[T2 MSW]

The Stage 4 kit is an approxmation based on replacement parts. After that you need and ECU at £1.5k including mapping. Turbo kits are in the region of £2 -2.5k. Fitting and setup will tkae the price over 6k

 

It adds up really fast.

[Nic]

For £6K you can drop a 2JZGTE engine in and modify it to BPU levels 400-430hp. Although it'd work out cheaper to sell the NA and buy a TT.

 

If you want any more than that it starts to become very expensive, you'd be looking at around double your budget to do the job properly.

[hackin_n_bashin]

For £6K you can drop a 2JZGTE engine in and modify it to BPU levels 400-430hp. Although it'd work out cheaper to sell the NA and buy a TT.

 

If you want any more than that it starts to become very expensive, you'd be looking at around double your budget to do the job properly.

 

the engine is bought, the cost of fitting, including basic drivetrain is costed and separate, so the cost of bpu is £6000?

 

and i could sell the na aerotop, buy a tt aerotop and still have enough left over to get to 500bhp?

Edited April 26, 2010 by hackin_n_bashin (see edit history)

[AlexM]

It's probably unfortunate that it was me that took you out Adam, as I have yet to be impressed with the pull of ANY Supra - I was possibly overly negative about it being slow.

 

As you saw first hand though, even at BPU there are unexpected costly problems, unfortunately mine seems to be worse than most (or just nobody posts about them). When I have it 100%, you're welcome to sort some fully comp insurance for the day and take it for a drive (or give me a very large deposit ).

[Scott]

the engine is bought, the cost of fitting, including basic drivetrain is costed and separate, so the cost of bpu is £6000?

 

really?

 

You aren't explaining your situation very clearly then as everyone is under the impression you are using a nearly stock N/A.

 

Of course it doesn't cost 6k for BPU, Nic meant to buy the engine, fit the engine and BPU the engine.... I thought that was obvious?

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse and awkward? We are only trying to help you and you are being very sharp.

 

 

I planned a single build and the parts alone added up to 7k.

 

That was for a GT35r kit with tubular manifold, solaris ECU mapped and fitted by Ryan, injector upgrade, clutch upgrade and all the bits of the engine I wanted changed at the same time. The "Stuff" I mention is purely down to choice. I chose to have my front and rear crank seals changed as I want them to be perfect from the get go. If you want 600hp on the cheap you could probably do it for around 4k. I wouldn't bet on it lasting very long though.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Scott (see edit history)

[Nic]

Of course it doesn't cost 6k for BPU, Nic meant to buy the engine, fit the engine and BPU the engine.... I thought that was obvious?

 

[hackin_n_bashin]

i really don't mean to be sharp, in fact I'm normally quite the opposite, but i did state in the 1st post that the TT engine was coming from jurgen , and was after a list of mods to get the engine to the magic number I'm after, as well as anything else i.e. fuelling, ignition, head work etc (I know this could be an endless ask!). i was hoping for constructive advice from people who had been down this route to save me wasting money on things i don't need, or won't do the job to the level I'm after.

 

I'd been looking at the stage 4 whifbitz kit as a starting point, so that leaves around £4500 in the pot.

 

If what i'm being told, that last 100bhp isn't obtainable for the money I'm willing to spend that's fine, I won't lose much sleep.

 

Again, i do apologise for seeming sharp

[Nic]

450hp with hybrids and all supporting mods (cams, fueling, ECU, etc.) is about the most you'll get out of the stock turbos.

 

Any more power than that and it starts to get very expensive as you need to ditch the stock turbos. If you are wanting 500-600hp then I would budget £8k-£10k to do a 'proper' single turbo conversion, this would be using all new 'quality' parts and doing all supporting mods without cutting any corners.

 

If you have a look at my garage HERE it'll give you an idea of all the parts required. I was running a Garrett GT35R turbo which made around 540hp.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Nic (see edit history)

[Scott]

Ahh, I follow you now.

 

If 500 is your goal I wouldn't bother with any "stage" kits. The reason for this is you will replace a lot of parts during the single install, if you go down that route. It is better to choose your single kit then build the rest around that.

 

http://whifbitzperformancetuning.co.uk/toyota-supra-turbo-upgrades-turbo-kits-garage-whifbitz-p-8739.html

 

That gives you an idea of the cost of a turbo kit.

 

Tubby Kit - 3.5k (lets not count the change )

ECU - I think Ryan is offering a deal on these just now? Can't remember the exact price off the top of my head. I think it is around £800 but don't quote me.

Injectors - £450-£600

Clutch - £400

Exhaust - £400

Intercooler - £600

BOV - £200

Filter - £100?

Gearbox - £???

Fabrication work - £??? (intercooler pipes etc)

Misc Stuff - Cam Seals, Crank Seals, Oil Pump, Water Pump, Belts, Fluids, Spark plugs

 

We have easily passed 6k already.