far Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 So he gets off striking the girl saying he was scared for his safety and thought the girl was carrying a weapon (which was a carton of Orange juice) What a load of tosh! Self defence? Or justice gone mad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Load of tosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I don't know much about this, but bearing this in mind... The problem I see with this is people like us and the legal system can take hours/days looking over the evidence, whereas the copper had a split second to react at the time. Unless the policeman is a sick b*stard (which is always a possibility but unlikely), I doubt he wanted to cause injury for the sake of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Didn't the court determine from witnesses that she was playing up to the cameras, acting in an aggressive and abusive manner, shouting obscenties and attempting to incite the crowd to attack the police? People should not feel like they have the right to shout obscenties and act aggressively towards officers of the law. The lack of respect for police officers is a big part of the contribution to the increase in street violence. I don't believe the self defence line - no way he thought he was in danger, but it looks and sounds like she deserved a good slap, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 Didn't the court determine from witnesses that she was playing up to the cameras, acting in an aggressive and abusive manner, shouting obscenties and attempting to incite the crowd to attack the police? People should not feel like they have the right to shout obscenties and act aggressively towards officers of the law. The lack of respect for police officers is a big part of the contribution to the increase in street violence. I don't believe the self defence line - no way he thought he was in danger, but it looks and sounds like she deserved a good slap, IMO. So the punishment for someone shouting and screaming is violence and physical abuse? No one deserves to be hit in that way no matter what they are saying, that was not reasonable restraint - he lost his temper and IMO he struck out without thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 It was a riotous situation, the protesters were repeatedly told to get back, yet they continued to get right up in the face of the police officers. The Police officers need to be firm in that situation and exert their authority in order to prevent the situation escalating. If you're repeatedly told by an officer to get back but instead you keep barging forward waving your fists in their face then they should get several baton hits round the head IMO, not just a tap on the legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I think I said in the thread when this came uplast time, the guy is standing next to a braying crowd, any of whom could be carrying a knife or other type of weapon. He tells people to get back and she comes towards him, he tells her again and still she comes at him. Now put yourself in that position. Will you stand there and try to plead with her while somebody sticks the knife in, or will you stand there and plead with her while she sticks the knife in, or do you make absolutely sure she is no where near you as per the original request? Watch his body language, he is having to watch 3 sides and deal with her at the same time and in that situation I would make sure she was no where near me. Would you trust a bunch of hoodies to stand right behind or right beside you when you know that any of them could be there to cause trouble? I dont think you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 I disagree with the above (last) two comments, she is half his size and if she is a threat then there are ways of restraining and controlling her without hitting her. I do see how she was over excited but IMO it wasnt self defence more like a show of force. He should have used restraint techniques to take her out of the equation - not revert to violence when no physical attack was carried out and not weapon was seen (it was a carton of orange juice FFS!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 she is half his size and if she is a threat then there are ways of restraining and controlling her without hitting her While keeping an eye on the rest of the angry mob on your other three sides? Restrain her? Give me a fucking break. You go to protest like that and don't do as a police officer asks you to do, repeatedly, then expect to be on the receiving end of the baton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 A person's size doesn't count for much when they could be holding a knife with the intent to use it. In the foray, would the policeman have been expected to have known she was holding a carton of orange juice and not something else (or using the carton to conceal a weapon)? I refer back to my previous post. We can sit here stroking our chins analysing what happened, but we need to bear 2 things in mind: 1) we can take time to analyse things in hindsight, maybe replaying parts if they aren't clear after an initial viewing, but the policeman didn't have this luxury. 2) watching the video must surely only tell part of the story. You'd have had to have been there to appreciate what it was like (the noise, the shouting, practically p*ssing your pants in fear, thinking that you're always 2 seconds away from someone stoving your face in with a brick) and hence to appreciate the decisions that the police had to make. It sounds like a cop-out, but it's true. Watching the video sat here in my cosy living room is like watching a TV programme in mute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 The carton of orange could have contained something far more sinister!! just because it was an orange container does not mean it contained orange, and it appears to me this is only being seen from one side by many here. The police officer is an officer of the law, he does not make law but upholds them. In some quarters it has been reported that the protester was acting like a "lunatic" and was "wildly exhibitionist and aggressive". She need to be glad that she can protest here without fear of being shot as is the case in some countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity14 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I just watched the video: She was told to go away, and returned once, then twice. Like a lot of them, this women wanted a reaction, and when she got one - she wasnt happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shima60 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 also got to think how much pressure they are under. you don't know what nut job out there is carrying a weapon intending on harming them. i'd be scared if i was them thousands of people all angry at you. then someone keeps coming at you. hummm dunno what i'd do as i'v not been in that situation so i can't judge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I disagree with the above (last) two comments, she is half his size and if she is a threat then there are ways of restraining and controlling her without hitting her. I do see how she was over excited but IMO it wasnt self defence more like a show of force. He should have used restraint techniques to take her out of the equation - not revert to violence when no physical attack was carried out and not weapon was seen (it was a carton of orange juice FFS!) half his size or not, it would take 2 hands to restrain her assuming she even wanted to be restrained. With his back to the crowd he is an open target. Go and try restraining a 13 year old down the shopping centre, at 13 they probably wont be very big, but see how much they wriggle, and then watch as his mates give you a damn good kicking or whip out a knife, stab you and walk away. You wont see the knife and you wont see which one it was, but you will certainly know when it hits you. Of course it may not end that way, but would you want to take that chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I would not ever judge a person by their size, ever been to a fight class of some sort? Anyone got a video link to this story? Not read about this yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 He should have used restraint techniques to take her out of the equation He did. The baton strike to the legs is a home office approved technique, which officers are trained to utilise. I think he did a good job IMO. He carried out a dynamic risk assessment of the situation and acted accordingly. His actions are easily justifiable from my point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy-m2 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I have to agree with Branners, if every officer restrained one person in that crowed then they would be overrun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 She needed a slap, looked a bit of a lezbo imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
far Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 While keeping an eye on the rest of the angry mob on your other three sides? Restrain her? Give me a $#@!ing break. You go to protest like that and don't do as a police officer asks you to do, repeatedly, then expect to be on the receiving end of the baton. Was it one officer against all of the crowd? I seem to remember there were a lot of officers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity14 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 It takes a thread like this to seperate the Men from the Hippies. Men: Paul Sandy-m2 Pistonbroke Thorin Me Branners Stevie_b Max Headroom Fence Sitting Shima60 Snooze Hippies Far Ummm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWRYesGI0ss&feature=player_embedded happens at about 14 seconds in. Looks like most of the police officers were engaged with the other side of the crowd and facing the opposite direction, so yes, in a way it was this one officer against the whole crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpaulwilson Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 All actions the officer took were actions they are trained to take in exactly those circumstances. If there is any argument it should be aimed at the people who legislate the use of force in these situations and not the officer personally. IMHO she got what was coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 So he gets off striking the girl saying he was scared for his safety and thought the girl was carrying a weapon (which was a carton of Orange juice) What a load of tosh! Self defence? Or justice gone mad? I guess the answer is self defence, hardly a load of tosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 It takes a thread like this to seperate the Men from the Hippies. Men: Paul Sandy-m2 Pistonbroke Thorin Me Branners Stevie_b Max Headroom Fence Sitting Shima60 Snooze Hippies Far Ummm.... You forgot tw@t section. Lbm Anyway, Nice to see Sgt Smelly being let off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraHuman Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 I say slap em' silly, a bit of baton massage never hurt anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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