Scott Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 so you Believe the the ge is underrated by the same percentage as a tt gte No, the GE on the same dyno as a TT reaches the figures we would think it should. A stock J-Spec TT gets more than 276hp (276 iirc is the Japanese limit). I don't have a list, I don't even know if one exists, but if you can get information from SRR then that would back up or dismiss your thinking. You can take all manor of modded/unmodded/manual/auto cars for comparison. I'm betting it would backup what everyone on this forum has thought for years, and not what your thinking is now. Oh, I think I remember a 1993 stock UK TT hitting 320bhp on the SRR dyno. That isn't half bad for a car that is 16 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?p=2702792#post2702792 Started a thread there to see if we can get some input from the members to do some number crunching with. If we get similar RWHP figures from an auto and a manual we will be able to calculate the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 258 actually fwd cars will always have much better efficiencies than FR cars due to the mass of metal that must be turned, I'll scan a before and after of a light weight flywheel 5lbs less or something gaining 8 hp on a dyno. You are approaching my logic wrong, I am saying that an AWD car has MORE flywheel horsepower than people think, I used the manufacturer figures to show that, if a modern 6 speed Nissan car like the 350z is putting out 22% less horsepower than advertised that a 17 year old Toyota automatic is equal to or better than it in efficiency, If the na you said dyno'ed at 180 whp it would need a driveline loss of only19.2% mine is an auto and making one more pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Did you do this run in the US? My Evo V had 300hp, 24 more than advertised, completely stock. That is because of the Japanese lying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?p=2702792#post2702792 Started a thread there to see if we can get some input from the members to do some number crunching with. If we get similar RWHP figures from an auto and a manual we will be able to calculate the difference. Good Idea Scott, we will need to know mods though as close to stock as possible would be best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Proof of the Japanese being liars or that J-Spec TT's have approx 320hp? No However, if the Jspec only has 280hp then it is a million miles ahead of the UK spec given that it can produce 53% more power by upping the boost to 1.2bar. UK spec can only manage a 31% increase at similar boost levels (1.3bar iirc). My bad, just read what wrote again and you are infact saying they under rated the car, for a minute there I thought you were saying they didnt even make the claimed 280hp That will teach me to skim over the posts Carry on, as you were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Tee hee - a yank spouting bollocks about HP figures, there's a turn up for the books!!! Tell you what G'Man, we know from the drag times thread what kinda 1/4 mile terminal speeds an NA puts down - you go do a 1/4 mile in your 'special' NA and then we'll judge. That is the truest indicator of relative power... Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No, the GE on the same dyno as a TT reaches the figures we would think it should. A stock J-Spec TT gets more than 276hp (276 iirc is the Japanese limit). Oh, I think I remember a 1993 stock UK TT hitting 320bhp on the SRR dyno. That isn't half bad for a car that is 16 years old Would it throw a spanner in the works if I told you I ran 352bhp at SRR with the only modifications being decat pipe & RR? Boost ran at 0.8 Bar, had been service recently as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Did you do this run in the US? My Evo V had 300hp, 24 more than advertised, completely stock. That is because of the Japanese lying though. No this was in germany see here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=212441 The German VW guys call this Dyno "Hertzbrecher" or heart breaker, it consistently reads 5% or more, less than other dyno types so is generally bad for the ego which is why I chose it as my baseline, Once I reach my goal of 200 WHP on this dyno (only 19 to go and I haven't even touched timing or a cold air intake yet) I plan on visiting some of the UK Dynos people on here go to to verify my claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No this was in germany see here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=212441 The German VW guys call this Dyno "Hertzbrecher" or heart breaker, it consistently reads 5% or more, less than other dyno types so is generally bad for the ego which is why I chose it as my baseline, Once I reach my goal of 200 WHP on this dyno (only 19 to go and I haven't even touched timing or a cold air intake yet) I plan on visiting some of the UK Dynos people on here go to to verify my claims. Are they are tuning shop or is it just a dyno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Would it throw a spanner in the works if I told you I ran 352bhp at SRR with the only modifications being decat pipe & RR? Boost ran at 0.8 Bar, had been service recently as well. 0.9bar bud, well that is according to the writeup I'd say 350 is about right for those boost levels to be honest mate. According to Gman your 352 would actually be 391hp if the dyno was set to run the correct transmission losses. IMO the dyno under reads by 40% and we are all kicking around in 500hp cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No this was in germany see here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=212441 The German VW guys call this Dyno "Hertzbrecher" or heart breaker, it consistently reads 5% or more, less than other dyno types so is generally bad for the ego which is why I chose it as my baseline, Once I reach my goal of 200 WHP on this dyno (only 19 to go and I haven't even touched timing or a cold air intake yet) I plan on visiting some of the UK Dynos people on here go to to verify my claims. Regardless of what happens mate, if you hit 200rwhp I will be seriously in awe. We can argue day and night about the FWHP figures but if you put down 200rwhp at SRR I will be very very very impressed. It'll still only be 250fwhp though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Tee hee - a yank spouting bollocks about HP figures, there's a turn up for the books!!! Tell you what G'Man, we know from the drag times thread what kinda 1/4 mile terminal speeds an NA puts down - you go do a 1/4 mile in your 'special' NA and then we'll judge. That is the truest indicator of relative power... Cheers, Brian. Will do! no need for the name calling But like I said the RWHP is there on paper again you Turbo Guys get all defensive I'm just trying to prove the NA is not the slug you all make it out to be, Like I said originally I don't hold any delusions of chasing TT's down the strip. It is really no wonder anyone looking to do anything to an NA that doesn't involve boost gives up with the hammering and abuse you get on this forum. The Negativity must be a "Limey" thing, must be the weather.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Regardless of what happens mate, if you hit 200rwhp I will be seriously in awe. We can argue day and night about the FWHP figures but if you put down 200rwhp at SRR I will be very very very impressed. It'll still only be 250fwhp though Absolutely Right WHP is all that counts really, If I hit it here I'll definitely put ssr on my list as it seems to read on the high side! Hell only 250 bhp a puny 30 over stock with my ultra efficient autobox. Beer is on you if I do it though:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 When ready make a day of it, get other members involved for a dyno day You think it over-reads? According to you the %age calculation for losses means it under-reads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Are they are tuning shop or is it just a dyno? They are actually considered an auto manufacturer under German law due to the extensive nature of the mods they do to vehicles. Just like RUF, Brabus, Techart, Alpina and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 They are actually considered an auto manufacturer under German law due to the extensive nature of the mods they do to vehicles. Just like RUF, Brabus, Techart, Alpina and others. Can you quote any figures from them on stock cars? BMW or the likes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 No name calling - yank to me is the same as me being called a Scot. Or Haggis eater if you prefer I don't think of the NA's as slow, I've played on MWays with them and they ain't THAT far behind. What I find hard to believe are your gains, hence when the numbers get spouted with any proud owner I always fall back to the real proof - 1/4 mile terminal speeds. I have no real idea on what my car had powerwise but know it had an edge given I could get 121 MPH terminals (faster than any other stock or hybrid turbo'd cars on the list) and my car was a 'lossy' auto. That's more 'real' to me than dyno numbers given there's so much variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave17 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'm just trying to prove the NA is not the slug you all make it out to be. Well...not slug as such, more sloth with one leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 When ready make a day of it, get other members involved for a dyno day You think it over-reads? According to you the %age calculation for losses means it under-reads I'd Put losses of a TT6 at about 18-19% so 352 at the wheels with only a decat pipe at .8 bar? Bring it on! my skyline would read 550 whp on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'd Put losses of a TT6 at about 18-19% so 352 at the wheels with only a decat pipe at .8 bar? Bring it on! my skyline would read 550 whp on that one! No bud, 352 was the FWHP. The difference between manual and auto has been proven to be 5% though, has it not? I'm pretty sure if you took 2 similar FWHP figures on the same dyno the difference in RWHP is around 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Can you quote any figures from them on stock cars? BMW or the likes? Seeing as I hate VW's Not really. but here http://www.oettinger.de/en/ they manage to push 270 German street legal Euro 5 Emissions Hp out of a golf GTI though and one of them hung with my skyline when I was at 333 whp. (we won't Argue crank HP again;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Seeing as I hate VW's Not really. but here http://www.oettinger.de/en/ they manage to push 270 German street legal Euro 5 Emissions Hp out of a golf GTI though and one of them hung with my skyline when I was at 333 whp. (we won't Argue crank HP again;)) No, you misunderstand. I meant have the ran any stock cars on the dyno to get some figures to crunch. Say for example they ran a BMW M3 DCT. According to the manufacturers they have 414fwhp. If that company had ran one on the dyno and got the RWHP you could then calculate the transmission losses. I think the BMW figures come from a chassis dyno and are accurate, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 going to bed, you cant compare fwd & rwd efficiencies, I'm too tired to get into it but like the flywheels there is a lot less mass to accelerate in an ff layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 going to bed, you cant compare fwd & rwd efficiencies, I'm too tired to get into it but like the flywheels there is a lot less mass to accelerate in an ff layout. Is an M3 FWD now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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