Fitting a VW intake and new saturated injectors!

[Lbm]

I'm going to use one of these...

 

[Ian C]

well u see I never asked it opinion,

 

Well you asked "any idea" which is really an opinion.

 

I was asking if anyone has fitted these parts and what they thought?

 

If you re-read your original post, you didn't ask any of that, sorry.

 

U still don't understand why i posted?

 

Aside from the friction going on here, and the ghastly use of "u" instead of "you" (well done on saving that 0.2 seconds of typing), I'm not sure what you were asking either.

 

If you are asking "Is this plausible" as in upping the boost and running leaner, well, technically you would gain power by running 12:1 AFRs. But without something to replace the fuel for cooling, such as water or methanol injection, it's unsafe. Damn good chance of frying your engine especially on a long pull. But I somehow suspect that Rob has nailed this and it was really just a "look at me" thread and you don't want to hear "Pretty much everything you were told is crap".

 

So in the interests of salvaging a discussion about this I shall attempt, in a nicey nice fashion, to explain what's wrong here:

 

"He said using saturated injectors u r able to run leaner safe because of the way the spray (better atomisation)"

 

Better atomisation means a more complete burn. It's very good for emissions. It's marginal in changing the AFRs, and if it DID change the AFRs, it would result in reducing how much fuel goes IN to the cylinder to achieve the SAME afr. Regardless of that, it's nozzle design that dictates spray pattern, certianly not the coil driver method. Low duty/fast opening is the best you'd get from switching that technology, and that's all to do with idle and low load smoothness and economy again, nothing to do with full power.

 

"and that means going from 11 to 12 gaining a lot of extra power."

 

Yes, going to 12:1 AFR will give you more power. Pobably not the amount bandied around, and probably not for long unless you replace the in-cylinder cooling effect with something else.

 

I'm not mapper neither know exactly how it works.

 

Probably a good idea to ask on here then, just don't spit any dummies out if it's not what you wanted to hear

 

I do know that Dimitri is a top tuner and I take his word on this one.

 

If this info is what he's actually come out with, and it isn't corrupted by chinese whispers, I wouldn't be convinced.

 

The 1000cc suppose to give you enough supply as the old denso 1600cc!!

 

Now that's just plain ridiculous because injectors are rated by their delivery quantity per minute. If a 1000cc injector delivered 1600cc per minute it'd be a bloody 1600cc injector wouldn't it. Either that or a shit one because it's 60% wrong.

 

-Ian

[fastisnice]

Well you asked "any idea" which is really an opinion.

 

 

 

If you re-read your original post, you didn't ask any of that, sorry.

 

 

 

Aside from the friction going on here, and the ghastly use of "u" instead of "you" (well done on saving that 0.2 seconds of typing), I'm not sure what you were asking either.

 

If you are asking "Is this plausible" as in upping the boost and running leaner, well, technically you would gain power by running 12:1 AFRs. But without something to replace the fuel for cooling,

 

such as water or methanol injection, it's unsafe. Damn good chance of frying your engine especially on a long pull. But I somehow suspect that Rob has nailed this and it was really just a "look at me" thread and you don't want to hear "Pretty much everything you were told is crap".

 

So in the interests of salvaging a discussion about this I shall attempt, in a nicey nice fashion, to explain what's wrong here:

 

"He said using saturated injectors u r able to run leaner safe because of the way the spray (better atomisation)"

 

Better atomisation means a more complete burn. It's very good for emissions. It's marginal in changing the AFRs, and if it DID change the AFRs, it would result in reducing how much fuel goes IN to the cylinder to achieve the SAME afr. Regardless of that, it's nozzle design that dictates spray pattern, certianly not the coil driver method. Low duty/fast opening is the best you'd get from switching that technology, and that's all to do with idle and low load smoothness and economy again, nothing to do with full power.

 

"and that means going from 11 to 12 gaining a lot of extra power."

 

Yes, going to 12:1 AFR will give you more power. Pobably not the amount bandied around, and probably not for long unless you replace the in-cylinder cooling effect with something else.

 

I'm not mapper neither know exactly how it works.

 

Probably a good idea to ask on here then, just don't spit any dummies out if it's not what you wanted to hear

 

I do know that Dimitri is a top tuner and I take his word on this one.

 

If this info is what he's actually come out with, and it isn't corrupted by chinese whispers, I wouldn't be convinced.

 

The 1000cc suppose to give you enough supply as the old denso 1600cc!!

 

Now that's just plain ridiculous because injectors are rated by their delivery quantity per minute. If a 1000cc injector delivered 1600cc per minute it'd be a bloody 1600cc injector wouldn't it. Either that or a $#@! one because it's 60% wrong.

 

-Ian

 

question: have you ever mapped a car using saturated injectors??

 

 

I won't be answering to you being sarcastic like you were with me and but have a read and you might learn something new,

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516756&highlight=saturated+injectors

[Ian C]

Well I tried. Enjoy wallowing in off-topic.

[Wez]

question: have you ever mapped a car using saturated injectors??

 

Saturated just means they are high impedance, nothing special, the Supra PE direct drop ins are high impedance as are the stock jspec 440cc injectors.

 

I am assuming you have the newer Bosch 1000cc high impedance injectors like me, JamieP, Dan, Rob, Paul Whiffin and Steve.

 

Which ones did you go for?

[Tricky-Ricky]

Oh dear! here we go again:rlol:

[fastisnice]

Well you asked "any idea" which is really an opinion.

 

 

 

If you re-read your original post, you didn't ask any of that, sorry.

 

 

 

Aside from the friction going on here, and the ghastly use of "u" instead of "you" (well done on saving that 0.2 seconds of typing), I'm not sure what you were asking either.

 

If you are asking "Is this plausible" as in upping the boost and running leaner, well, technically you would gain power by running 12:1 AFRs. But without something to replace the fuel for cooling, such as water or methanol injection, it's unsafe. Damn good chance of frying your engine especially on a long pull. But I somehow suspect that Rob has nailed this and it was really just a "look at me" thread and you don't want to hear "Pretty much everything you were told is crap".

 

So in the interests of salvaging a discussion about this I shall attempt, in a nicey nice fashion, to explain what's wrong here:

 

"He said using saturated injectors u r able to run leaner safe because of the way the spray (better atomisation)"

 

Better atomisation means a more complete burn. It's very good for emissions. It's marginal in changing the AFRs, and if it DID change the AFRs, it would result in reducing how much fuel goes IN to the cylinder to achieve the SAME afr. Regardless of that, it's nozzle design that dictates spray pattern, certianly not the coil driver method. Low duty/fast opening is the best you'd get from switching that technology, and that's all to do with idle and low load smoothness and economy again, nothing to do with full power.

 

"and that means going from 11 to 12 gaining a lot of extra power."

 

Yes, going to 12:1 AFR will give you more power. Pobably not the amount bandied around, and probably not for long unless you replace the in-cylinder cooling effect with something else.

 

I'm not mapper neither know exactly how it works.

 

Probably a good idea to ask on here then, just don't spit any dummies out if it's not what you wanted to hear

 

I do know that Dimitri is a top tuner and I take his word on this one.

 

If this info is what he's actually come out with, and it isn't corrupted by chinese whispers, I wouldn't be convinced.

 

The 1000cc suppose to give you enough supply as the old denso 1600cc!!

 

Now that's just plain ridiculous because injectors are rated by their delivery quantity per minute. If a 1000cc injector delivered 1600cc per minute it'd be a bloody 1600cc injector wouldn't it. Either that or a $#@! one because it's 60% wrong.

 

-Ian

 

asking "Is this plausible" as in upp

 

I think you meant " is this possible"?

 

How did i go off

topic? You said "spitting a dummy." I found it sarcastic, Anyway the new Bosch wez,have you mapped a car with them on?

[RobSheffield]

Plausible is a word that means approx the same as possible Kostas

[Ricky49]

[mr lover]

Passat ?

[JustGav]

Just thought i'd *wave* as well

[Alex]

Free Bump for a funny thread!

[Class One]

Passat ?

 

Beetle.

[fastisnice]

whatever

[mr lover]

whatever

 

is that the diesel ?

[dude]

Well having seen a seminar of a top mapper who travels the world teaching and lecturing he tells how pretty much any AFR from mid 10's to 12's will produce almost the same power results combined with the timing that that can be used re AFR readings, I dont see the point in trying to run lean AFR's, it cant be economy as when im boosting at 2.5 to 3 bar im not worried about that, EGT's will be effected but IMO thats the only reason to come out of the 11:1's, Hi 10's don't bother me, I wont even notice 20hp;)

[fastisnice]

Well having seen a seminar of a top mapper who travels the world teaching and lecturing he tells how pretty much any AFR from mid 10's to 12's will produce almost the same power results combined with the timing that that can be used re AFR readings, I dont see the point in trying to run lean AFR's, it cant be economy as when im boosting at 2.5 to 3 bar im not worried about that, EGT's will be effected but IMO thats the only reason to come out of the 11:1's, Hi 10's don't bother me, I wont even notice 20hp;)

 

We will see

[dude]

We will see

 

Get Dimitri to throw some fuel in on the map to get a comparison, but like I say we have experimented and aside from a few hp the main diff is egt's, not worth the risk and you will not see gains of 100's of HP, hell on the silver car I could never tell if the NOS was working or not, it was hard to feel the extra 100 hp.

[dk_supra]

Get Dimitri to throw some fuel in on the map to get a comparison, but like I say we have experimented and aside from a few hp the main diff is egt's, not worth the risk and you will not see gains of 100's of HP, hell on the silver car I could never tell if the NOS was working or not, it was hard to feel the extra 100 hp.

 

 

John, the differences in Kostas' setup will be the following

 

VWR intake (From stock)

Q45 throttle body (From stock)

Different ignition setup (From stock)

Fuel injectors

Map sensor

And mapping instead of 1.8 bars@11 afrs, 2+ bars@12 afrs. The mapping of course includes a completely different ignition and fuel map, it's not just adjusting the fuel. The whole ignition approach is totally different.

 

As far as the egts go, would you think that I would give a customer something that I haven't tested. Nope. I usually dip the tongue in my brain before I talk, and the power difference will be more than 100hp, a lot more. Also there are some minor changes on the oiling system that help some components to run faster thus producing a lot more power. Let's just say there is a lot of hidden power in some things, that we learned from tuning a lot of 4g63s, vr38s and a lot of tfsi's and 20vt's. We have really experimented for the last year in a lot of different areas, even risked a lot of good engines trying different approaches, and applying late generation technology on enough areas of the 2jz. Cheers.

 

P.S. but believe me if the thing holds at top speed runs, it will hold at a lot of quarter mile runs. Also when you it's about 2.5-3 bars, then there is really no point in running 11s and pump gas, since any logical tuner would run c16 and lean it to 12.6-12.9 and add about 6-7 degrees of timing everywhere.