NA-T making things simple?

[Miguel]

You got me all wrong, its not just about me, just throwing some ideas about, maybe somebody else would fancy building one, ive never heard anyone mention doing a internal watsegate setup before, most na-t's are built with huge chocolate turbos and get a bad rep for that reason, im just talking about keeping it simple on a small budget.

 

I think you hit the crux of it right there. The bad reputation has been a direct result of "Doing it Cheap". I've seen internal gated NA-T's and the same principle applies, good reliable engineering costs. It's only ever going to be as reliable as the weakest part, and again, good parts cost money. I don't see why it is thought that a single conversion on an N/A requires a lower level of engineering than a single conversion on a TT.

 

I think your idea is a great one and I wish you all the luck with it, but the reliability is in the details, and them small details soon start to add up - like removing the engine to drill the oil return properly ( and not taking the 50/50 route)

[jimbo482]

damn I thought you guys were onto something there

 

I'll keep saving then

[Scooter]

Ramblings.......

 

Can a stock NA only register/recognise a few psi variance? (atmospheric variances)

 

Does it change the fueling for this at high rpm/WOT (open curcuit?)

 

If you did the necessary to get 4-5psi of air into in the engine would it just fuel for the couple of psi it can acknowledge, so as you up the boost you are just eating into the conservative map/safe fueling Toyota designed into the Map, before you Det it to pieces?

 

What would happen on a Stock NA if you bled the excess boost almost any add on turbo creates via purposely leaking bov? Would the fueling be unaffected?

 

If you had the ability to record/hear Det then you could effectively go up a PSI at a time until you encountered significant amounts?

 

With a stock ECU the power won't kill the engine and it can't overfuel so we could only be talking of death by Det, can't we?

 

Get to 4-5 psi and get Det, add water injection for possibly another psi or two, crank on another 1 or 2 at the pod "cause it's a 2JZ and it can take it" blow it up and fit another £100 engine

Edited February 22, 2010 by Scooter (see edit history)

[AlexM]

It feels like NA-T is cropping up a fair amount on here lately.

 

I'm wondering how the costs of NA-T stack up against a 1JZ conversion. I expect the 1JZ makes sense up to BPU (~400bhp), but after that?

 

Unfortunately I don't know enough to try and make up kits myself to work out possible costs (yet). Someone needs to stop worrying about forum politics and put a proper NA-T together, and come back and report their results! I'm pretty set on the 1JZ route now, but it would be nice to have a comparison.

[kill1308]

yeah i do hear you jamie i mean honestly jokes aside for a minute.

 

personally why go NA-T like the way your saying when the tt is more powerful, tonnes more reliable, stronger built and less headache.

 

i do admire the approach though because like you said they have been slated because monkeys have done them so it would be an interesting result.

 

cost wise NA £3000 + £1500 = £4500 for a single sup at say 320hp

 

TT £8000 sup - 420hp

 

you could save £2500 going NA-T so its actually a smart idea.........

 

hmmmmmmmmmmm........... Jamies got me thinking now.

 

From what I've quickly grasped after having a quick gander over this thread, he's not looking for big power, or to do things in the usual well explored manner. He's looking for a project.... I'm guessing the point of not just sticking a TT engine in and leaving at that is that it would just mean it's just an engine transplant, project over, job done..... I think the point of it is, where's the fun in that?

 

I'm guessing that it's just the usual man/fuel/turbo/project scenario where doing things yourself in a different way is a bit of a laugh and if it works....bonus.... but if it doesn't... "ah well".

 

I could be wrong though as I often am, but sometimes it's fun to think outside the box and do something different to everyone else

 

I totally agree the best option is to go down the explored route, but if everyone was like that the world would be a pretty boring place eh

 

Good luck with it dude, keep us posted as to how you get on

[Tom]

1JZ is what i'd do

[sdistc]

Had considered this route, Jamie, albeit via a slightly different channel (in an IS300 ) - but thought for the time/hassle/money I might as well swap the entire driveline for the GTE... because, let's face it, the GTE will make more power more reliably at a similar level of investment (i.e. BPU). In my opinion, Na-T only really works if you're going for bigger numbers - where you change it all anyway, so doesn't really matter where you start from, GE or GTE.

[CJ]

Someone needs to stop worrying about forum politics and put a proper NA-T together, and come back and report their results! I'm pretty set on the 1JZ route now, but it would be nice to have a comparison.

 

I assume that you were joking with this comment but missed out the smilie? If not, then please have a search before making such silly statements.

 

Not only have there been lots of well documented and interesting threads on a NA-T conversion but never once have I noticed any "forum politics" getting in the way.

[Rob_Mitchell]

the american na-t club have some awesome set ups and it seems to be the norm out there, im sure a reliable kit can be put together if we all banged our heads together and thought about it properly- the interest seems quite high too

[CJ]

Like Jamie, I now give up too!

[suprasize]

These is an interesting concept... Bookmarked this thread :-)

[SamuraiFlash]

Come on lads i'm sure you boffins can come up with a decent solution here.

 

I'd be pleased with a na-t conversion which only produced 300bhp, as long as it was reliable and cheaper than a tt conversion.

[j1mb0b1]

Come on lads i'm sure you boffins can come up with a decent solution here.

 

I'd be pleased with a na-t conversion which only produced 300bhp, as long as it was reliable and cheaper than a tt conversion.

 

[AlexM]

I assume that you were joking with this comment but missed out the smilie? If not, then please have a search before making such silly statements.

 

Not only have there been lots of well documented and interesting threads on a NA-T conversion but never once have I noticed any "forum politics" getting in the way.

 

No CJ, I wasn't joking. Some of us see things in different ways, and if you don't see the politics then fair enough - however there's no need to call my statement silly (that's defamatory).

 

I haven't seen any write ups for a proper high quality NA-T setup anywhere on this particular forum, and yes I have searched. Now there may be some and I've missed them, 'NA-T' is not a good search term and '2JZ-GE Turbo' and variants haven't shown me anything of particular interest (Please look them up and post links for us all to enjoy, I would genuinely be interested in reading them).

 

I know there are plenty of other setups on other forums, but I would like to see a good proper UK setup, with a writeup, and constructive criticism from members. Unfortunately whenever interest is posted on here it seems to get shot down, regardless of whether someone has the money spare and fancies giving it a go, 'Go NA-TT', 'Conversion', 'Just buy a TT', it's always the same thing. If I had the money spare, I'd give it a go! I just want to see how well it can work. The only NA-T setups I've seen over here in person, have been second rate and frankly rubbish.

 

Regardless on whether I am 'correct' or not with my belief that there are politics on this forum (I am entitled to my own opinion), keep your condescending posts to yourself. This is a family 'friendly' forum, is it not?

[imi]

Its not about that Rob or that car in paticular, everyone slates na-t in the uk, its just a thought.

 

With your 1st post you just proved why.....do all that and still get a car slower than a stock TT........why bother.

 

If you want speed, simple would be to ditch the NA and get a nice TT as a good foundation to start with.....

[Homer]

im with you on this jamie, be something different im thinking and planning my na-t project, can definately be done on a resonably budget. i would seriously think about this jamie prove a few people wrong- you proved people wrong with your single supra on stock internals and getting some outstanding results. be a good challenge for you

 

You say "definately be done on a resonably budget", that is easy to do, but what experience and knowledge do you add behind such a broad statement?

 

Who has been 'proved wrong'? I don't recall anyone advising against Jamie's chosen mods, far from it.

 

...like removing the engine to drill the oil return properly ( and not taking the 50/50 route)

 

Yes, it's possible to cut corners. But would you really?

 

Someone needs to stop worrying about forum politics and put a proper NA-T together, and come back and report their results!

 

What forum politics? There's none I'm aware of - unless it comes to underhand trading... NA-T is discussed here many times but the expectations of the OP and their goals are often unreaslistic and as such migh appear that a few who might actually know what they're talking about, don't agreee with the planned changes. That might be interpreted as 'politics' by some people, but is most often just a case of being offered good, well founded advice.

 

Stuff

 

It's just bouncing an idea around, and he's probably gone off the idea already. Until tomorrow, where he might have bought an NA-T, then the next day when he got fed up and sold it

 

Had considered this route, Jamie, albeit via a slightly different channel (in an IS300 ) - but thought for the time/hassle/money I might as well swap the entire driveline for the GTE... because, let's face it, the GTE will make more power more reliably at a similar level of investment (i.e. BPU). In my opinion, Na-T only really works if you're going for bigger numbers - where you change it all anyway, so doesn't really matter where you start from, GE or GTE.

 

Spot on

[Homer]

I know there are plenty of other setups on other forums, but I would like to see a good proper UK setup, with a writeup, and constructive criticism from members. Unfortunately whenever interest is posted on here it seems to get shot down, regardless of whether someone has the money spare and fancies giving it a go, 'Go NA-TT', 'Conversion', 'Just buy a TT', it's always the same thing. If I had the money spare, I'd give it a go! I just want to see how well it can work. The only NA-T setups I've seen over here in person, have been second rate and frankly rubbish.

 

May I ask why you have not done the NA-T route already? If it's such a good option why are you not installing one?

 

Not wishing sound like an arsehole, just interested based on the reply

[Scooter]

 

I haven't seen any write ups for a proper high quality NA-T setup anywhere on this particular forum, and yes I have searched. Now there may be some and I've missed them, 'NA-T' is not a good search term and '2JZ-GE Turbo' and variants haven't shown me anything of particular interest (Please look them up and post links for us all to enjoy, I would genuinely be interested in reading them).

 

GazzaGsi and Bromy threads were the best ones i can think of, it's a shame Bromy was so 'quiet' as his was the best built/longest lasting one I can think of..........

[Homer]

Come on lads i'm sure you boffins can come up with a decent solution here.

 

I'd be pleased with a na-t conversion which only produced 300bhp, as long as it was reliable and cheaper than a tt conversion.

 

300bhp can be acheived for about £1.5k, if you are VERY careful buying 2nd hand parts and and handy with the tools (welder, electronics, nuts&bolts stuff, etc). I spent absolutely ages looking into NA-T and have plenty of ideas how to cut costs.

 

The conclusion was that it's a waste of time, as nearly everything would need to be ditched every time more power is wanted - it has no viable mid or long term upgrade route

[AlexM]

May I ask why you have not done the NA-T route already? If it's such a good option why are you not installing one?

 

Not wishing sound like an arsehole, just interested based on the reply

 

I never said it was a good option, I just want someone to do it so I can see whether it is. As I said in your quote 'If I had the money spare..', unfortunately I don't.

 

A 1JZ is cheaper, and makes more sense to me. I'm hoping BPU will be enough to keep me happy.

[j1mb0b1]

hehe this thread is getting very hot

[Miguel]

 

Yes, it's possible to cut corners. But would you really?

 

 

Well I wouldn't, hence I brought it up. But we all know it goes on Mr swarf.

[SamuraiFlash]

300bhp can be acheived for about £1.5k, if you are VERY careful buying 2nd hand parts and and handy with the tools (welder, electronics, nuts&bolts stuff, etc)

 

I'm an absolute waste of time when it comes to DIY, so this route may end up expensive for me?

[Homer]

Well I wouldn't, hence I brought it up. But we all know it goes on Mr swarf.

 

Sorry, missed a smilie on the reply, it was tongue in cheek

 

A 1JZ is cheaper, and makes more sense to me. I'm hoping BPU will be enough to keep me happy.

 

I agree with this

[AlexM]

GazzaGsi and Bromy threads were the best ones i can think of, it's a shame Bromy was so 'quiet' as his was the best built/longest lasting one I can think of..........

 

I'm struggling to find a 'build' thread for either (Bromy doesn't seem to have posted a great deal), GazzaGsi has loads of threads but it looks like his was done by turbofit? I found this but it's hardly a detailed post.