What happens when you die? (serious question)

[Jas]

Sorry for the essay.....

 

not at all. thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I neither condone or condemn. Im just very interested.

 

People should be allowed to believe what they want unless that belief itself causes harm or pain to others who do not share it.

 

That’s my basic take on life.

 

of course one could argue semantics about what constitutes harm and pain if they were so determined, but i would recommend basic common sense as the cure for that ailment.

[TLicense]

Although that is a great way to live life, (and I applaud it) it wont get you to heaven. We need to realised that we are all born sinners, and we need saving

 

Y'see, I just can't understand that. If there was an almighty, why would he feel the need to be worshipped by the likes of us? I'm sure that with the unlimited power that he has, the very last thing he would have is an inferiority complex that needs bolstering by us mere humans.

As long as we weren't running around raping and pilliging, and were living fulfilling, morally righteous lives, then we're making the absolute most out of the universe that he has given us to live in? Surely that would appease him more than spending a vast amount of our time worshipping him?

I see it a bit like an artist painting the most beautiful portrait, and putting it up in a gallery, only for everyone instead to pop around to the artists house rather than go look at the painting.

 

It's been mentioned before, but what about those for whome the word of God hasn't reached? Do they get an automatic exclusion just for being geographically distant?

 

Does the bible actually say, "no God, no pass", or is it a case of interpreting what has specifically been written?

[CJ]

...of course one could argue semantics about what constitutes harm and pain if they were so determined, but i would recommend basic common sense as the cure for that ailment.

 

Care to elaborate? I would be interested to know what semantics could be employed when determining "harm and pain".

[Jas]

To me, its all very personal and to even discuss on a car forum would be akin to giving your wife your wedding vows by txt message.

 

 

 

theres a lot to be said for this type of discussion though.

 

It allows people to consider responces instead of blurting out the first thing, allows non-repudiation (.."i never said that!"). And the discussion is mediated (which helps prevent people throwing their toys out of the pram).

 

but i take your point that there is allot to be said for real human interaction when discussing the 'deep and meaningful'.

[RedM]

It's been mentioned before, but what about those for whome the word of God hasn't reached? Do they get an automatic exclusion just for being geographically distant?

 

Does the bible actually say, "no God, no pass", or is it a case of interpreting what has specifically been written?

 

Indeed. What about those born deaf, dumb and blind? I wonder if they have any concept of a god. Do babies that die after a few hours/days get a free pass or are they cast into hell for all eternity?

 

Does god like me more because, of all of god's creations, I only eat the plants and not the cute, little critters that it made?

 

It doesn't really matter as I don't believe anyway but it's always interesting to ask.

[JustGav]

We need to realised that we are all born sinners, and we need saving

 

Some of us are trying to go for broke Although I have had voices in my head and seen somethings, sadly I can explain them...(paint fumes )

[Jas]

Care to elaborate? I would be interested to know what semantics could be employed when determining "harm and pain".

 

 

CJ i think suspiciouse mind has led you to the opposite conclusion of what i intended to convey.

 

that comment was put in place for any one intent on arguing for the sake of arguing about what may or may not be harm.

 

baisically if you belifes involve hurting some one (in any way shape or form!). i dont agree with your belief.

 

other then that - beileve that the earth is a giant ping pong ball an i couldnt care less... i may debate the issue with you if you didnt mind but it wouldnt really bother me.

[AlexJames]

Y'see, I just can't understand that. If there was an almighty, why would he feel the need to be worshipped by the likes of us? I'm sure that with the unlimited power that he has, the very last thing he would have is an inferiority complex that needs bolstering by us mere humans.

As long as we weren't running around raping and pilliging, and were living fulfilling, morally righteous lives, then we're making the absolute most out of the universe that he has given us to live in? Surely that would appease him more than spending a vast amount of our time worshipping him?

I see it a bit like an artist painting the most beautiful portrait, and putting it up in a gallery, only for everyone instead to pop around to the artists house rather than go look at the painting.

 

It's been mentioned before, but what about those for whome the word of God hasn't reached? Do they get an automatic exclusion just for being geographically distant?

 

Does the bible actually say, "no God, no pass", or is it a case of interpreting what has specifically been written?

 

I dont know if your a family man or not TLicense, if you had/have children, would you want them to love you? If they did love you, would you think you only needed that love to bolster your confidence?

 

I would hope your answer would be, You children are your own flesh and blood, and they love you because you care about them... Gods the same.

 

I have answered before a few times on this topic weather the people that dont know about God will get saved. like deaf dumb and blind people. The bible talks about an age of innocence, like if a baby dies... they wouldnt go to hell because they never had the chance. I think the same rule would apply to mentally ill people.

 

God doesnt need us to tell others about him, many Muslims in the middle east have been turning to Christ because they have seen him in dreams and visions talking to them...

 

not at all. thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I neither condone or condemn. Im just very interested.

 

People should be allowed to believe what they want unless that belief itself causes harm or pain to others who do not share it.

 

That’s my basic take on life.

 

of course one could argue semantics about what constitutes harm and pain if they were so determined, but i would recommend basic common sense as the cure for that ailment.

 

I'm always happy to answer questions... being interested is a good thing

[CJ]

...God doesnt need us to tell others about him, many Muslims in the middle east have been turning to Christ because they have seen him in dreams and visions talking to them...

 

Correct me if I am wrong (as I suspect others will do too) but doesn't Christ appear in the Quran as a prophet second in importance to Mohammed? If so, why would Muslims turn to Christ (and I am assuming you therefore mean Christianity) after seeing him in dreams etc?

[AlexJames]

Correct me if I am wrong (as I suspect others will do too) but doesn't Christ appear in the Quran as a prophet second in importance to Mohammed? If so, why would Muslims turn to Christ (and I am assuming you therefore mean Christianity) after seeing him in dreams etc?

 

Correct, they speak of the Prophet Isa, (Jesus is the translation name)

 

But Muslims class Jesus as a prophet and a great healer, but not the son of God, to say so to them would be blasphemy.

 

When we get stories of muslims turning to christ because they have appeared to him in a vision, they are basically turning away from Islam and Converting to Christianity, in their country, that will most likely get them killed, but such is their conviction and belief because Jesus spoke to them, they wont deny Jesus.

[TLicense]

I dont know if your a family man or not TLicense, if you had/have children, would you want them to love you? If they did love you, would you think you only needed that love to bolster your confidence?

 

I would hope your answer would be, You children are your own flesh and blood, and they love you because you care about them... Gods the same.

 

OK, but to use your anaology, do I need my children to love me in order to love them back? No. There are plenty of cases where this love is non-mutual. OK a lot of them end up in a court case and a restriction order, but that's not the ones I would want to focus on!

I don't know the in's and out's of what Christianity actually says, but to effectively be cast away from heaven (and presumably into hell) because of a lack of that love to God just seems a bit extreme. Surely those people are the ones who would deserve to be held closest to God? Surely God should be saying "I'm sorry that I didn't make myself apparent enough to you during your life on Earth, there were probably very hard times in your life, and because of my failings as a father, you went through them alone, when I could have been there for you"?

I just don't understand the love me or I'll punish you sentiment.

 

I have answered before a few times on this topic weather the people that dont know about God will get saved. like deaf dumb and blind people. The bible talks about an age of innocence, like if a baby dies... they wouldnt go to hell because they never had the chance. I think the same rule would apply to mentally ill people.

 

Ah OK, I was confused by the earlier post about us all being "born sinners".

[AndrewOW]

What a load of CoCk.

 

That's 200 in old money.

[CJ]

Correct, they speak of the Prophet Isa, (Jesus is the translation name)

 

But Muslims class Jesus as a prophet and a great healer, but not the son of God, to say so to them would be blasphemy.

 

When we get stories of muslims turning to christ because they have appeared to him in a vision, they are basically turning away from Islam and Converting to Christianity, in their country, that will most likely get them killed, but such is their conviction and belief because Jesus spoke to them, they wont deny Jesus.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate here (and I can as I don't believe in either form of religion), I would bet a lot of money that the Muslims could quote instances of Christians having the same type of visions and turning to Islam.

 

To me, both would sound more like propaganda than fact.

[AlexJames]

OK, but to use your anaology, do I need my children to love me in order to love them back? No. There are plenty of cases where this love is non-mutual. OK a lot of them end up in a court case and a restriction order, but that's not the ones I would want to focus on!

I don't know the in's and out's of what Christianity actually says, but to effectively be cast away from heaven (and presumably into hell) because of a lack of that love to God just seems a bit extreme. Surely those people are the ones who would deserve to be held closest to God? Surely God should be saying "I'm sorry that I didn't make myself apparent enough to you during your life on Earth, there were probably very hard times in your life, and because of my failings as a father, you went through them alone, when I could have been there for you"?

I just don't understand the love me or I'll punish you sentiment.

 

A good comment this one, and I think it is something that allot of people will feel and think about God.

 

God doesn't need our love, he just wants it. He loves us regardless of what we do.

 

Seeing it as 'love me or Ill punish you' is a very hard way to think of it. I think its more of a choice. Everything God has created he has given a choice to follow him. From Humans to Angels to Lucifer, we have all had a choice.

 

If your children hated you, rejected you, joked about you to others, the gifts you gave them in love, they threw away or laughed at. It begins to be very hard to love them in return. There is always love for them, or love for what they were, but in the end, you wont want to spend time with them. So it comes to a point where a father has to discipline his children.

 

Personally as a kid I never liked getting disciplined by my dad, the same for me, I don't want to get disciplined by God.

 

Dont forget that, yes, he is a God of love, but that doesn't mean he's a push over or to be taken for granted. The bible says that Gods anger lasts but a moment, but his mercies last forever.

[AlexJames]

Playing Devil's Advocate here (and I can as I don't believe in either form of religion), I would bet a lot of money that the Muslims could quote instances of Christians having the same type of visions and turning to Islam.

 

To me, both would sound more like propaganda than fact.

 

Your more than welcome to your point of view my friend

 

I have personally never heard of anyone turning to Islam because of a vision... through fear of retribution, yes! I say that not with ignorance, where I work we see both sides of the fence as it were...

 

Its a hard discussion to get into here about the difference between Christianity and Islam, perhaps another thread one day. One of the main differences is that Islam is a religion, which believe God will never speak to us and that you have to earn your way to heaven.

 

True Christianity is about relationship... not about 'doing things religiously'. Its about knowing the father and loving him in return. All we have to do is believe that we are sinners and that Jesus, the son of God, died for us. We can never earn our way to heaven, because Jesus already paid that price for us.

[JustGav]

Seeing it as 'love me or Ill punish you' is a very hard way to think of it. I think its more of a choice. Everything God has created he has given a choice to follow him. From Humans to Angels to Lucifer, we have all had a choice.

 

If your children hated you, rejected you, joked about you to others, the gifts you gave them in love, they threw away or laughed at. It begins to be very hard to love them in return. There is always love for them, or love for what they were, but in the end, you wont want to spend time with them. So it comes to a point where a father has to discipline his children.

 

You don't have teenage kids do you, this is a daily occurrence

Personally as a kid I never liked getting disciplined by my dad, the same for me, I don't want to get disciplined by God.

 

Dont forget that, yes, he is a God of love, but that doesn't mean he's a push over or to be taken for granted. The bible says that Gods anger lasts but a moment, but his mercies last forever.

 

Okay, I'll go with the one that got me booted out of RE at school. Most religions explain existence/life having been designed/created by a entity referred to by many names and that without this entity nothing would happen. Then the obvious question is, where did this entity come from? Is it also not possible that everything is just an accident a good one, but simple just a bunch of atoms hitting each other.

[JustGav]

All we have to do is believe that we are sinners

 

With you on that point

[tbourner]

If your children hated you, rejected you, joked about you to others, the gifts you gave them in love, they threw away or laughed at. It begins to be very hard to love them in return. There is always love for them, or love for what they were, but in the end, you wont want to spend time with them. So it comes to a point where a father has to discipline his children.

 

What about if your children left home at an early age and then did really well for themselves, made loads of money, gave most of it to charity, saved lives and brought up a lovely family - only to return to see you when you (or them) were dying - would the father hate them and cast them out and not want to be with them?

 

Also, I think putting human fatherly emotions onto a higher being is a bit naive. You would hope God wouldn't be so petty as to say "Well you've laughed at me all your life so now I don't want to play with you, so ner."

[Jas]

Then the obvious question is, where did this entity come from?

 

this question still arises if you do not belive in a god.

 

ie where did the initial conditions for the big bang or whatever preceded it.. or what ever preceded that (etc etc) come from.?

 

It is in this way we are living proof that our current logic and reason is inadequate.

 

logic would suggest something can not come from absolutely nothing. there is no emperical precedent for this. (try to think of one and youll go mad- or crack the mysteries of the universe!)

 

logic also suggest that something cannot simply exist withought ever having a beggining. (no precedent for this either in the natural world)

 

both these arguments are used by people who do not belive in god do disprove the possibility of gods existance.

 

however we are living proof that either one of these supositions is incorrect, or our logical system itself is invalid. a 'God' is irrelevant to the argument. It can be considered a purley scientific problem (if you wish).

 

There is a theory to help visualise a 'possible' solution which 'streatches' our current logical system and it could be used to explain where the initial conditions came from or a god came from. hence it doesnt really help in this discussion really.

[TLicense]

A good comment this one, and I think it is something that allot of people will feel and think about God.

 

God doesn't need our love, he just wants it. He loves us regardless of what we do.

 

Seeing it as 'love me or Ill punish you' is a very hard way to think of it. I think its more of a choice. Everything God has created he has given a choice to follow him. From Humans to Angels to Lucifer, we have all had a choice.

 

If your children hated you, rejected you, joked about you to others, the gifts you gave them in love, they threw away or laughed at. It begins to be very hard to love them in return. There is always love for them, or love for what they were, but in the end, you wont want to spend time with them. So it comes to a point where a father has to discipline his children.

 

Personally as a kid I never liked getting disciplined by my dad, the same for me, I don't want to get disciplined by God.

 

Dont forget that, yes, he is a God of love, but that doesn't mean he's a push over or to be taken for granted. The bible says that Gods anger lasts but a moment, but his mercies last forever.

 

But isn't that the point? His anger would indeed last an eternity if you were sent to Hell?

 

If my children laughed at and rejected my love, because I never showed it them in a way they could understand, but say in later life came to me and said "I now understand, I just never saw it when I was younger", I wouldn't chastise them, I would probably feel partly responsible for failing to show them in a way they could appreciate, but more than anything I would be happy that they now knew how much I did / do love them.

 

I do admire the way the faith that you have, but I just don't understand where it comes from.

[AlexJames]

Okay, I'll go with the one that got me booted out of RE at school. Most religions explain existence/life having been designed/created by a entity referred to by many names and that without this entity nothing would happen. Then the obvious question is, where did this entity come from? Is it also not possible that everything is just an accident a good one, but simple just a bunch of atoms hitting each other.

 

Our human minds find this one hard to understand, God created time... he lives outside of it... there is no beginning, and no end when you live out of time. God invented 'beginnings'... something that us humans find hard to get our heads around... me included!

[Jas]

Our human minds find this one hard to understand, God created time... he lives outside of it... there is no beginning, and no end when you live out of time. God invented 'beginnings'... something that us humans find hard to get our heads around... me included!

 

 

spot on. and this happens to be the most 'likely' model for a non-god universal 'beggining' also at this time. so it cant be used as an argument to advocate one view point over the another... unfortunately:(

[cobrastang]

Experts recon,soon after we die our body weight changes by up to 1 ounce in weight.They beleive that is when the soul leaves the body.check this link http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D07E5DC123EE033A25752C1A9659C946697D6CF

 

Personaly I think when we die,its game over.I dont beleive in a god.Religion is just a business.Life on earth is just a freak of nature.In my very humble opinion there is no god......The big bang?Long before the big bang there was the big flash.There was no atmosphere in which to create sound...just a super massive flash of light,then billions of years came the big bang.

[AlexJames]

What about if your children left home at an early age and then did really well for themselves, made loads of money, gave most of it to charity, saved lives and brought up a lovely family - only to return to see you when you (or them) were dying - would the father hate them and cast them out and not want to be with them?

 

Also, I think putting human fatherly emotions onto a higher being is a bit naive. You would hope God wouldn't be so petty as to say "Well you've laughed at me all your life so now I don't want to play with you, so ner."

 

But isn't that the point? His anger would indeed last an eternity if you were sent to Hell?

 

If my children laughed at and rejected my love, because I never showed it them in a way they could understand, but say in later life came to me and said "I now understand, I just never saw it when I was younger", I wouldn't chastise them, I would probably feel partly responsible for failing to show them in a way they could appreciate, but more than anything I would be happy that they now knew how much I did / do love them.

 

I do admire the way the faith that you have, but I just don't understand where it comes from.

 

You got it spot on right there, yes, if you walked away from your father, but then came back later, would he accept you back. 100% yes!

 

I don't feel God is responsible for failing us, as he has shown us a way. He sent his son to this earth to show us and die for us... but we find that hard to believe these days. He does speak to us and gives us direction if we ask, but still we choose not to listen to him or acknowledge him or believe in him. He gives us signs, but we dont listen.

 

To the other questions about 'isnt it a bit petty, for God to feel like that, I simply cannot answer those questions because I dont know the answer

 

All I know is that God is a God of love, sometimes love involves discipling us, other times that means blessing us.

[Gabriella]

Right apologies firstly for the deep topic of conversation ....

 

 

... Last Sunday was my Mums birthday. She would have been 54 if she hadn't tragically died 16 years ago when i was 13

 

Its such a massive question and with all the modern technology these days still remains the biggest and most unanswered question of all time (that and does the G-spot actually exist!)

 

So, what are your theories?

Do you come back as someone/something else?

Do you go to heaven as a spirit and look down on everyone still living?

Do you simply die, and thats it..game over, end of? (i cant quite comprehend that option)

Do you go to another world? is this just a dress rehersal?

 

 

blah blah, just wondered?!

 

I'm so sorry to hear that

 

What happens when you die?

 

I have no idea i never die before.