What happens when you die? (serious question)

[CJ]

I asked this question on another thread but it may have been missed.

 

Does Islam, as a religion, allow children of 9 (or thereabouts) to be married? The other thread I posted in seemed to suggest that this is the case.

[Ewen]

Bazinga

Wazzoogie

[penguin]

Proof can be found where?

 

everywhere

[penguin]

I asked this question on another thread but it may have been missed.

 

Does Islam, as a religion, allow children of 9 (or thereabouts) to be married? The other thread I posted in seemed to suggest that this is the case.

 

Muslims are allowed to marry once they reach puberty, and it have to be consented by the girl, and her parents.

 

It also depends on the country which allow the legal age to be married.

 

[Thorin]

everywhere

 

Nowhere. There is no proof for anything.

[penguin]

Nowhere. There is no proof for anything.

 

so how do you explain your own existence? chance?

[Thorin]

so how do you explain your own existence? chance?

 

Who says I exist? And define existence

[martini]

Who says I exist? And define existence

 

This is true. We cannot prove that anyone else exists - we cannot prove that the world is real. We cannot prove even that we are real!

 

We could all be figments of an imagination.

[penguin]

Who says I exist? And define existence

 

In the creation of the heavens and Earth, and the alternation of the night and day, and the ships which sail the seas to people's benefit, and the water which God sends down from the sky – by which He brings the Earth to life when it was dead and scatters about in it creatures of every kind – and the varying direction of the winds, and the clouds subservient between heaven and Earth, there are signs for people who use their intellect. Qur'an, 2:164

[Septic]

I asked this question on another thread but it may have been missed.

 

Does Islam, as a religion, allow children of 9 (or thereabouts) to be married? The other thread I posted in seemed to suggest that this is the case.

 

Penguin answered your question, albeit briefly but clearly, from your response to a completely unrelated thread, you are still confused about the issue. So let me clarify:

 

The Qur'an does not provide a numerical minimum as to the age of marriage. However, there are guidelines to be adhered to when getting married that would make it extremely difficult to successfully initiate such a marriage whilst staying true to core Islamic principles. Before I get into them, let me clarify this marriage at the age of 9 business and where the misconception arises from.

 

Nowhere in the Qur'an (an entrenched and un-changeable scripture) is there any mention of this. The only authority to go on as to what age the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) married Aisha (p.b.u.h) is the Hadith (i.e sayings of the prophets recorded by his companions or others). Remember, the Qur'an overrides Hadith in the case of a conflict as there can be many doctored Hadiths whereas there is only one Qur'an (regardless of different sects).

 

Prophet Muhammad and his marriage to Aisha (p.b.u.t)

 

I’m going to try and explain this as clearly as possible to a non-muslim because there are various terminology you will be unaware of.

 

This is where you will find the info:

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

 

There are two events to consider when considering Aisha’s marriage to the Prophet Muhammad- the nikah which is merely a betrothal and then the actual consummation of the marriage. The confusion stems here because some Hadiths suggest that the betrothal occurred when Aisha was aged 6 and consummation occurred when she was aged 9 whereas others contradict this. Moreover, logically dissecting the historical events that occurred you will observe that:

 

It was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. Note that Khadija (p.b.u.h) is reported to have been 40 years old when Muhammad was only 25 years old. Even here people dispute Khadija’s age, some saying she was 3 years older than him others saying the former. It just goes to show that Hadith regarding these matters were unreliable.

 

The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.

 

Also, as the aforementioned link provides- there’s even more evidence to suggest that she was even older at the time of her marriage.

 

Here it goes into more detail. I wonder how much of this you understand considering the reliance on Islamic terminology and history but I’ll just paste the information for now:

 

1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

 

“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.”

 

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

 

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

 

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.”

 

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

 

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:

 

“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.”

 

In response to what is actually permissible in Islam- as I mentioned before, there is no minimum numerical age limit. However there are several conditions that have to be met:

 

1) The woman has to reach puberty before she can get married (essentially an age limit)

 

2) There has to be an agreement by both sides, i.e a contract about the terms- also, and this is something to consider especially with the rampant misconceptions: the contract can stipulate that the man will not marry another woman (also bear in mind that the Qur’an is the ONLY holy scripture on the face of the planet that stipulates that a man should have one wife)

 

There are loads of Qur’anic verses about the criteria for marriage and the duties of a husband to a wife etc but I won’t go into details.

 

In essence, I don’t really see how it would be possible to marry a 9 year old because EVEN if she reached puberty at such an age, she would have to be forced to get married (which does unfortunately happen). There are LOADS of conditions for marriage.

 

 

I can answer any other questions you have regarding this. I will try my best.

[Thorin]

That's too much information for Thorin (p.b.u.h) to be reading right now, he has headache and is bored passing the time until 5pm. He's also slightly confusing himself by talking in the third person.

[Septic]

Lol Thorin (peace be upon you). I tried my best to shorten it as much as possible but there is loads I could still mention on this.

 

Essentially, at the end you'll realise that it is important to distinguish custom and traditions from faith. Regardless, it was an important question that I had to research myself.

[AndrewOW]

Weird. I just did a search for that, and peace be upon everyone, then!

[AndrewOW]

That's too much information for Thorin (p.b.u.h) to be reading right now, he has headache and is bored passing the time until 5pm. He's also slightly confusing himself by talking in the third person.

 

 

Which is also another sign of madness. Please get in the queue. Thanks

[CJ]

Septic:

 

Whilst I appreciate the time you took to explain the situation regarding Mohammed and the child, I was in fact more interested in your take on this article and the case(s) featured here in modern times.

[CJ]

Muslims are allowed to marry once they reach puberty, and it have to be consented by the girl, and her parents.

 

It also depends on the country which allow the legal age to be married.

 

As pointed out to Septic, what about the case(s) here.

[Septic]

Septic:

 

Whilst I appreciate the time you took to explain the situation regarding Mohammed and the child, I was in fact more interested in your take on this article and the case(s) featured here in modern times.

 

Ah damn you CJ!!

 

My take on it is simple:

 

Saudi's just take the p1ss when it comes to following Sharia. I just face-palm myself every time I read an article like that because 1) its Islamically ignorant and 2) it just serves to catalyse the misconceptions against Islam.

 

In the article you posted its evident that:

 

"The girl was married to her father’s cousin last year against her wishes and those of her mother."

 

Also, the small notes below state that:

 

"— In April 2009 a Saudi judge refused to annul a marriage between a girl, 8, and a man in his late forties, saying that she could not seek divorce until she reached puberty"

 

She shouldn't have been married before she even reached puberty let alone getting her married against her wishes.

 

What can I say CJ? There are 1.5 billion muslims in the world and inevitable there are going to be idiots that take the p1ss. Many people pervert Islam in order to get legitimacy for what they do (terrorists, men who abuse women etc) even though the Islamic view is clear on the matter.

 

There is no place for stuff like this in the modern world, even an Islamic state. To be honest, I have NEVER come across anyone who has married someone so young or has multiple wives but you hear about it happening.

 

There must be really backwards families because I struggle to comprehend what the mindset of these people are.

 

I think the minimum age for marriage, reasonably would be around the age of 15 because in my opinion and according Islamic doctrine, that is the age (during these modern times) when people exhibit responsibility in general. My mum got married quite young at the age of 16 mind you. It wasn't forced or any of this bull btw. And I think my dad should file for divorce considering how badly my mum hits him

[penguin]

As pointed out to Septic, what about the case(s) here.

 

it was against her wishes, and against the wishes of her mother. the father and "husband" should be locked up at the very least!

[JustGav]

Just watching a Discovery documentary 'Direct from the moon', where they mentioned a Takeshi Kekegawa.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28117029/

 

He did an experiment replicating an asteroid impact, containing iron, nitrogen, carbon. He fired a slug at high speed. He found the resulting impact merged substances were amino acids. Amino acids being the building block for life.

 

Off to do some more research but it definitely seems to support the fact that we are nothing more than a fantastic accident

 

"Carbon and nitrogen are already abundant in the atmosphere," Takeshi Kakegawa, also of Tohoku University, said. "But hydrogen and oxygen are still needed to form organic molecules."

 

That's where the asteroid comes in. In an impact, the iron in a meteorite acts as a catalysts to break up water molecules, allowing hydrogen and oxygen to bond with carbon and nitrogen to form the complex molecules.

[Scott]

In fairness Gav it was never in doubt

[Jamesy]

Until absolutely proven one way or the other everything is in doubt, thats the bloody problem!!!!

[Scott]

Santa Clause

The Tooth Fairy

Jesus Christ

God

 

They all have a lot in common and fall under the same rule as you just made.

[imi]

Wow that is almost exactly the same as the KEY verse describing God in the Qur'an.

 

Chapter 112, Surah al-Ikhlas:

 

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not nor is He begotten.

And there is none like unto Him.

 

 

Question for Jas - what other scripture describes the creator as clearly as the versus above?

[Chiefgroover]

Just watching a Discovery documentary 'Direct from the moon', where they mentioned a Takeshi Kekegawa.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28117029/

 

He did an experiment replicating an asteroid impact, containing iron, nitrogen, carbon. He fired a slug at high speed. He found the resulting impact merged substances were amino acids. Amino acids being the building block for life.

 

Off to do some more research but it definitely seems to support the fact that we are nothing more than a fantastic accident

 

Still...there has NEVER been ONE transitional fossil ever found (just a handful of doubtfuls) which should make up the vast majority of the fossil record. This is the single most important factor for proving the theory evolution, which is missing

OF course you could ignore this fact and put blind faith in it, and if anyone wants to, go ahead.

[Guest grifter]

Sympathies about losing your mom.

I have the answer - absolutely nothing!!

The lights turn off and we simply return to the soil, ultimately we all came from stardust and that's where we're headed.

Mankind's most primal and instinctive fear is losing one's life and the uncertainty about what happens after.

To comfort and console ourselves we've spent the best part of the last 10K yrs devising complex belief systems and religions to give us a support system, like a warm blanket, to cope with this life and the supposed after.

It's all part of the human condition and our superior intelligence that means we have to keep looking for an answer. In my view there is'nt one. Add to that the fact that we are so stranded on this planet it's mind boggling.

Some things about life really are that simple, despite how utterly hopeless it seems. Human beings can't seem to accept simplicity, but if you think deeply about it, simplicity is really beautiful.

 

Let's make the most of this life & be happy, it's all we've got.

 

Peace.