penguin Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I get the feeling you more knowledgeable about islam then i am. what evidence or reasoning does islam provide as to the existence of a god/Allah? i often hear Christians talk of the 'evidence of design' argument?* alex can you confirm/elaborate. but im not sure what islam says on the matter. can someone enlighten me? ClickME complete idiots guide to understanding Islam.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ClickME complete idiots guide to understanding Islam.... That will be an interesting read. Although, they have numbered the contents pages wrong, as Roman numerals should be in CAPS, or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 "learning and experiencing everything that the world has to offer" And then unlearning it all when you die. All those experiences and knowledge gained but ultimately lost. Isn't this futile? Am I really just a goldfish with a penis? I believe so yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 And that's where it falls apart, because there's no evidence that anything supernatural has ever happened. . if the supernatural never happened, how does that explain you being here? in the body you are in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I believe so yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 if the supernatural never happened, how does that explain you being here? in the body you are in? I wish we knew, then at least we could try exorcising him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 complete idiots guide to understanding Islam.... This condescension of tone is far too familiar of previous discussions I’ve had with people of your persuasion. Its not a tenant Islam to my knowledge. Am I mistaken? (on this particular issue) not in general. anyway.. you got anything more advanced??, possibly something with equations- im feeling on point today!. only kidding. ill take a look and see if it has what im after. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I get the feeling you more knowledgeable about islam then i am. what evidence or reasoning does islam provide as to the existence of a god/Allah? i often hear Christians talk of the 'evidence of design' argument?* alex can you confirm/elaborate. but im not sure what islam says on the matter. can someone enlighten me? Well I actually used to have a very agnostic/atheist way of thinking. I used to believe that all religion was man-made and used as a form of control so something made me change my mind. To be honest, I wasn't and still am not persuaded by promises of bounties in heaven etc. In Islam, if I don't really come from a practising family so for me- the persuasion came not only in the form of scientific evidences but also the message of the scripture. Needless to say, its an on-going process. It is every Muslim's duty to seek knowledge (Hidayat being the Qur'anic word) In terms of some scientific evidences as to God's existence, this is a good (albeit basic) video: Also, it was/is, a case of me employing logic that confirms in my mind that Islam is the truth. The completely unrelenting adherence for proof and forward thinking as well as the numerous tests to question the validity of the Qur'an- suggested in the Qur'an itself, represent an extremely persuasive argument. For example, observe the falsification test in the Qur'an: Will they not then, ponder over the Quran? If it were from other than Allah they would surely have found in it much discrepancies. [4:82] To be honest, its an amalgamation of several factors that compels me with an unflinching conviction in my faith- even the evidence of design argument, logic and most importantly the message. Its not simply hopelessly reciprocal as in "I believe because I believe" but a case of I believe because I perceive to the best of my judgement. I hope that makes sense. I am still a relative newcomer to Islam- it wasn't too long ago that I was of the aforementioned conflicting view. What about you Jas? What is your reasoning/evidence? Its finally great to get a proper understanding of the Sikh faith. I'm gonna have a go at my Sikh mates who only gave me sweeping statements about their faith along the lines of "yeah its basically like Islam and Hinduism mixed together". I hope you can understand my prior, incorrect and ignorant assumption now. Apologies again for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 That will be an interesting read. Although, they have numbered the contents pages wrong, as Roman numerals should be in CAPS, or something. those Romans *shake fist* I actually read that book myself, because even though i was born muslim i didnt really have many muslim attributes... until one of the guys at my workplace said something along the lines of "if you believe in 72 virgins you've got to be bonkers" .... and i had no answer for it.... so i figured i would research it and try to understand the reasoning behind it.... understood the logic and relayed it back to him. when you get to the chapters about death, heaven and hell you'll understand it too If anything, this book changed my life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 This condescension or tone is far too familiar of previous discussions I’ve had with people of your persuasion. Its not a tenant Islam to my knowledge. Am I mistaken? (on this particular issue) not ingeneral. anyway.. you got anything more advanced??, possibly something with equations- im feeling on point today!. only kidding. ill take a look and see if it has what im after. thanks sorry fella, i didnt mean to come across condescending - that is the actual title of the book if you need anything else on any specific topic please feel free to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 those Romans *shake fist* I actually read that book myself, because even though i was born muslim i didnt really have many muslim attributes... until one of the guys at my workplace said something along the lines of "if you believe in 72 virgins you've got to be bonkers" .... and i had no answer for it.... so i figured i would research it and try to understand the reasoning behind it.... understood the logic and relayed it back to him. when you get to the chapters about death, heaven and hell you'll understand it too If anything, this book changed my life... ill be sure to read this. looks interesting. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Penguin....really?An idiot's guide to Islam?? Sigh...I don't understand how that would work in any real constructive basis. In any case, I'll read that link carefully. By the way, I joined this forum to learn about Supras and now embroiled in a religious thread. Please remember: I AM NOT A PREACHER!!! I'm worried you guys are just gonna see me as "that fundamentalist muslim guy". Trust me, I want a Supra more than anyone! 2JZGTE only though....N/A are for pu55ies- and I think that's a fact we can all agree on. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 sorry fella, i didnt mean to come across condescending - that is the actual title of the book if you need anything else on any specific topic please feel free to ask. Lol... yeah i just opened it and realised that! I may take you up on that offer my friend- im facinated by all religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 What would be destructive about being selfish in the absence of some sort of cosmic justice system? ie how would being selfish be detrimental to oneself if you could get away with it in life. The point I was trying to make was that with the lack of a cosmic justice sytem, there is no deterrant to stop you from being a rapist rather than a charity worker. However, you do have a choice as to whether you want to inflict misery onto other people, thus reducing the amount of enjoyment they get out of their short lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Penguin....really?An idiot's guide to Islam?? Sigh...I don't understand how that would work in any real constructive basis. In any case, I'll read that link carefully. By the way, I joined this forum to learn about Supras and now embroiled in a religious thread. Please remember: I AM NOT A PREACHER!!! I'm worried you guys are just gonna see me as "that fundamentalist muslim guy". Trust me, I want a Supra more than anyone! 2JZGTE only though....N/A are for pu55ies- and I think that's a fact we can all agree on. Right? having been on this forum on/off for a number of years, it's ANYTHING but Supra talk on here most of the time! that book gives a good foundation to newcomers - written by a revert so it does away with the cultural mishaps most scholars tend to plug in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I believe so yes. Ahaha lol fair-does. You are entitled to your belief. I apologise if I sound preachy or trying to shove my religious beliefs down your throats. Because of the way I believe in my faith with such conviction I may sound overly assertive. Just to clarify: “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” (Quran 2:256) Ah penguin- that's all good. I'll be sure to have a read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The point I was trying to make was that with the lack of a cosmic justice sytem, there is no deterrant to stop you from being a rapist rather than a charity worker. However, you do have a choice as to whether you want to inflict misery onto other people, thus reducing the amount of enjoyment they get out of their short lives. Agreed. Although im still not sure I approve of you killing bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 if the supernatural never happened, how does that explain you being here? in the body you are in? Because he have a Supra and spend few pounds on Supernatural tan and beauty salons ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Supernatural tan and beauty salon ? Now that sounded like someone else possessing Karolina's body for a moment there. Lucky bugger. And not forgetting trampolining tone too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 You raise a valid point. Lets get some people to comment from the grave. Where's Derek when you need him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 we all return to God, and await the judgement hour which puts us in either heaven or hell. this "life" is nothing but an illusion, a playground for GOD and the devil to test our faith in our existence. Proof can be found where? Godwin's! Bazinga. And you are? Able to string a sentence together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 ...Able to string a sentence together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Able to string a sentence together? bla bla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 bla bla Have an h or two on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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