Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Don't you mean the Hebrew Bible. (Which contained a little bit of Aramaic) the word in question (special/begotten) was in Aramaic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Regardless of translations, are these holy texts not in fact just stories that people believed because we had no understanding of the world around us? possibly. doesn’t explain why they would talk about other planets and life forms though in space, at least 150 years before Galileo in the west rumbed the church on the earth is the centre of everything theory!. could have been just a guess though- i dont refute that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Oh Bugger! He didn't do a very good job of creating us then if we have all these flaws! He made us perfect, but we made a choice to go our own way. All I can do now is (especially the man made earthquakes statement) Oh, and the dinosaurs reference. I didnt say that man made earthquakes, I say we destroy this planet, and I dont think that helps... The dinosaurs ref... just my point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 sikhs believe you lose allot of the meaning of the original texts if you translate them. translation over translation may result in a twisting of original intent. example: that’s why im not a Christian. (no offence alex). but it could be argued that the original Aramaic bible stated jesus was a special son of god, as opposed to the begotten son. big difference in the result. i believe it was a roman council in 300 ad that voted on such translations to go in the new translated bible* but then again Sikhism’s text are only 300 years old so we have the benefit of having the original language of scripture still in common use. * please correct me if im wrong alex? Don't you mean the Hebrew Bible. (Which contained a little bit of Aramaic) The original Hebrew and Greek translations are now actually pretty accurate according to scholars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 In his books The Power of Now & A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle speaks of people really misunderstanding the God concept and indeed the heaven and hell one. Chasing these things can seriously get in the way of actually living in the present. He says Eternity is here... now - Not some place you go after you die. With a slight shift in perspective, it helps one worry less about the will I get into (the man made heaven) or will I go to (the man made) hell, but instead, to enjoy this moment right now is a good way forward. I like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 He made us perfect, but we made a choice to go our own way. Really? http://img.skitch.com/20100216-enkb1kxdft1pqt8awpk9kt32j8.jpg I didnt say that man made earthquakes, I say we destroy this planet, and I dont think that helps... Earthquakes have absolutely nothing to do with anthropogenic influences. Unlike weather, earthquakes are caused by tectonic plate movement due to the flow of heat under the crust. We have no influence on this. Please don't tell me that you think people have miscarriages because they have sinned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 why is it silly for me to ask that you ask me about my beliefs as opposed to ask google to figure out what you think i might believe? Because that is not what you said. You said: ...ps. dont google sikhism youll just get a lot of primary school internet Baloney- just ask me if you happen to be interested. Which, as you can see, didn't mention your beliefs but actually implied that you were far more knowledgeable that Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Because that is not what you said. You said: Which, as you can see, didn't mention your beliefs but actually implied that you were far more knowledgeable that Google. i dont refute that implication when it comes to sikhism... you have to understand CJ sikhism is not a large religion by any means. most of the sikhs who have started up the major websites about it i actually know personally or know of at very least! theres only one english translation of our text into english (carried out 30 years ago) which by majority of sikhs is considered to be a very poor first attempt!. Theres a couple of different schools of though when it comes to sikhism - as every religion. if you wish to know the one i subscribe to then ask me. thats all i meant. for general background. please do as you wish - it was meant as a tongue and cheek comment that’s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I don't think you can believe in one without believing in the other. Jesus was the incarnation of God on earth. God and Jesus are the same thing essentially. You've heard of the 'Trinity'? - Father, Son & Holy Spirit, all the same entity. That's my understanding of it anyway. Jesus was provided by God as the intermediary for man to come to God. I think. Correct Really? http://img.skitch.com/20100216-enkb1kxdft1pqt8awpk9kt32j8.jpg Earthquakes have absolutely nothing to do with anthropogenic influences. Unlike weather, earthquakes are caused by tectonic plate movement due to the flow of heat under the crust. We have no influence on this. Please don't tell me that you think people have miscarriages because they have sinned. Taken your point on, personally I do believe that we live in a broken world as a result of sin that entered it. I dont however believe that people have miscarriages because they have sinned, thats just silly. To use the words of some of you on here... sometimes **** happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Really? http://img.skitch.com/20100216-enkb1kxdft1pqt8awpk9kt32j8.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Revelation speaks of the "white throne judgement" which apparantly has nothing to do with shouting for "huey" the morning afterwards. Something to do with a second chance for the dead, and that Heaven and Hell dont happen until the last day? etc? anyone know the correct interputation on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 really? http://img.skitch.com/20100216-enkb1kxdft1pqt8awpk9kt32j8.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Revelation speaks of the "white throne judgement" which apparantly has nothing to do with shouting for "huey" the morning afterwards. Something to do with a second chance for the dead, and that Heaven and Hell dont happen until the last day? etc? anyone know the correct interputation on this? Revelation is a hard book to read, the bible speaks of a kingdom after armegeddon, that the people who survive the tribulation and the people that become christians during that time will live in. The white throne judgment is to judge them, basically give them a choice to follow christ or not... Thats a HUGE paraphrase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 He made us perfect, but we made a choice to go our own way. Didn't Adam and Eve sin quite a lot though? Were they his rough draft? Who was the first perfect human who didn't sin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I don't think you can believe in one without believing in the other. Jesus was the incarnation of God on earth. God and Jesus are the same thing essentially. You've heard of the 'Trinity'? - Father, Son & Holy Spirit, all the same entity. That's my understanding of it anyway. Jesus was provided by God as the intermediary for man to come to God. I think. I am aware of the Holy Trinity but am somewhat confused by the concept. If I assume correctly, mainstream Christian belief denotes that: 1. Jesus is God 2. Jesus is the Son of God 3. Jesus is the son of Mary So Mary (p.b.u.h) gave birth to God? You state that God and Jesus are the same thing essentially yet you state Jesus was provided by God as the intermediary for man to come to God. He is the same as God yet he is the intermediary sent by God? This verse from the Bible seems to strike at the heart of the belief in the Trinity: John 5:30: "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. I always wanted to know what the Christian belief in regards to the above was. Never did I imagine I would have learnt the answer on a Supra forum mind you By the way, I do believe in Jesus Christ (p.b.u.h) but not in the same context. I mean no offence. For all you atheists/ non-believers in God: IF you believe when you die, you just die- then what is the difference between a serial rapist and charity worker? Essentially you end up the same way- worm food? Isn't the weight of feelings such as love and caring greatly diminished if you believe the above? Feelings like compassion and love- these are then just mere bi-products of physical reactions in the brain. Thus, the belief that Hitler was bad is just a belief brought about by mere common consensus- someone could then well be within reason to believe he was a good person (btw I consider him evil before you brand me a NAzi!). I am not saying that atheists have no moral beliefs by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .... so, we go to heaven when we die then?!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .... so, we go to heaven when we die then?!! lol No mate, you become bacteria food. Sorry to say, but that's where our current level of understanding puts things. If you want to believe stories; I am penning a new religion at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My beliefs. Basically the fist page of sikh scriptures fo ya! There is one fundamental creative substantive and destructive force/energy It is the true nature of the universe/cosmos It is the creator of all. It is withought fear, and withough hate. It is immortality personified. It is beyond birth. Self illuminated/sufficient. It is realised only if it so wills it. As an example of the issues with the current English official translation, most internet sites simply summaries the first line as “there is one god”… you ll see that not what the first line is getting at! Later scriptures go on to speak of the above being formless, infinite, aware, genderless & existing in a state of perpetual bliss. Obviously I have no evidence for the above being true. But that’s why it’s a belief- not a statement of fact. Right! Take your best shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 If and when one gets to the Pearly Gates...will there be nibbles available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .... so, we go to heaven when we die then?!! lol No, we kinda live on through our children, and we become plant food for the next generation. I've sinned, and I liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Didn't Adam and Eve sin quite a lot though? Were they his rough draft? Who was the first perfect human who didn't sin? They were perfect, but eve was deceived by satan to dissobey God, then tempted adam to do it too... so basically its all eves fault jk, eve was deceived, adam knew what he was doing when he dissobeyed I am aware of the Holy Trinity but am somewhat confused by the concept. If I assume correctly, mainstream Christian belief denotes that: 1. Jesus is God 2. Jesus is the Son of God 3. Jesus is the son of Mary So Mary (p.b.u.h) gave birth to God? You state that yet you state He is the same as God yet he is the intermediary sent by God? This verse from the Bible seems to strike at the heart of the belief in the Trinity: John 5:30: I always wanted to know what the Christian belief in regards to the above was. Never did I imagine I would have learnt the answer on a Supra forum mind you By the way, I do believe in Jesus Christ (p.b.u.h) but not in the same context. I mean no offence. For all you atheists/ non-believers in God: IF you believe when you die, you just die- then what is the difference between a serial rapist and charity worker? Essentially you end up the same way- worm food? Isn't the weight of feelings such as love and caring greatly diminished if you believe the above? Feelings like compassion and love- these are then just mere bi-products of physical reactions in the brain. Thus, the belief that Hitler was bad is just a belief brought about by mere common consensus- someone could then well be within reason to believe he was a good person (btw I consider him evil before you brand me a NAzi!). I am not saying that atheists have no moral beliefs by the way! Loads of questions there. Think of it as God three in one. God the Father, God the Son, God the holy spirit. or God as God, God in human form, God in spirit form. "IF you believe when you die, you just die- then what is the difference between a serial rapist and charity worker? Essentially you end up the same way- worm food? " To God a sin is a sin, there is no sin that is more than another" riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .... so, we go to heaven when we die then?!! lol No, you go to a judgment place... then if you dont believe in Christ... well, thats when things get heated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 No, you go to a judgment place... then if you dont believe in Christ... well, thats when things get heated. lol - literally!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 So is cremation the path to hell then?! Lucky I've still got my dad in a pot, because I'm not letting him go somewhere like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 My beliefs. Basically the fist page of sikh scriptures fo ya! There is one fundamental creative substantive and destructive force/energy It is the true nature of the universe/cosmos It is the creator of all. It is withought fear, and withough hate. It is immortality personified. It is beyond birth. Self illuminated/sufficient. It is realised only if it so wills it. Wow that is almost exactly the same as the KEY verse describing God in the Qur'an. Chapter 112, Surah al-Ikhlas: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 So is cremation the path to hell then?! Lucky I've still got my dad in a pot, because I'm not letting him go somewhere like that! Haha, that made me LOL irl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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