edinlexusV8 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Office 2003 is not at all same as Office 2007 as Office 2007 is based on Open XML standards and now this gives terrible headache as the apps that generate reports in word 2003 dont work anymore in 2007 as the core technology is underneath has changed! And all this is not helping any company! We are redeveloping apps for some of our clients so that they can upgrade to office 2007 that is putting extra burden on them due to extra IT spend. All this is to comply to standards!?! So that an MS office 2007 document can be opened in Sun's OpenOffice?? What a junk of a standard and waste of time and money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I wonder if they paid for his MCSE Ah yes, you gotta love those MCSE guys. Minesweeper Champion, Solitare Expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Office 2003 is not at all same as Office 2007 as Office 2007 is based on Open XML standards and now this gives terrible headache as the apps that generate reports in word 2003 dont work anymore in 2007 as the core technology is underneath has changed! And all this is not helping any company! We are redeveloping apps for some of our clients so that they can upgrade to office 2007 that is putting extra burden on them due to extra IT spend. All this is to comply to standards!?! So that an MS office 2007 document can be opened in Sun's OpenOffice?? What a junk of a standard and waste of time and money! Wow, you going to come out with every product MS has and try fanboi it up? Erm, open XML is an MS standard...you knocking MS now??? Office Open XML (also referred to as OOXML or Open XML) is an ISO/IEC standardized ZIP-compatible file format originally developed by Microsoft[2] for representing spreadsheets, charts, presentations and word processing documents. https://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2005/nov05/11-21Ecma.mspx NEXT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Offff cooourse, it is other people's fault, if only they used IE in the only way MS wanted to And why are they stuck with IE6? Perhaps because of some non-standard functions in there? Exactly during development of IE5/6 time the stands were still in infancy and not clear. Everybody has their own interpretation of the standard. Just like double diffusers in F1. Yeah you can put in some standards but it will take some time for everybody to get their head around standards and companies wont wait and stop their devlopment of apps until the standards gets clear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Coz MS has the biggest share in the market for browser, desktop OS, Office apps and you are asking the elephant in the room to dance according to tickly, fickle and unclear decisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I think you'll find MS changed the Office format hugely because no bugger was upgrading, thanks to a) feature overload and b) backwards compatibility. Lets face it, Office 97 would still do everything most people need. So in order to generate revenue, they break backwards compatibility, and start seeding it out there in the world. Now people have to spend money on Office 200whatever to 'keep up' in the IT world, and have to hire HPCs with MS qualifications to do exactly the work you've just blamed on "standards" And I'm reaching here, making a big assumption and all, but I'd put money on the XML format MS stuff saves things in as being somewhat proprietory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I will actually say, Visio is an okay product for MS...oh wait they didn't write that either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Paying for office suite is the least of the worries! MS dont have to change the office so drastically if it doesnt have to comply with the standards. As an eg, You can have a table of data in word or excel you can just copy + paste it across to outlook and send an email. But you can only do this across 2003 apps or only between 2007 apps. You cannot do it between 2003 and 2007. How do you embed a chart which is generated in Excel into an email say yahoo or something, you can just do it copy and paste in office + outlook? this helps companies at an intranet level to deal with communication in a better way. Standards dont make £1 difference to a company using a suite of MS tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 I will actually say, Visio is an okay product for MS...oh wait they didn't write that either Oh yeah really! So they just copy or buy stuff! What about databases? What about XBox? What about Mobile OSs? What about Live Spaces? What about Mesh? What about Cloud Computing? What about Virtualization? these are outside browser, desktop, server OSs, Office suits etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Oh yeah really! So they just copy or buy stuff! What about databases? What about XBox? What about Mobile OSs? What about Live Spaces? What about Mesh? What about Cloud Computing? What about Virtualization? these are outside browser, desktop, server OSs, Office suits etc etc. Virtualization??? They bought that as well... Mobile OS : Strange, I think apple probably nailed it with iphone.... Cloud computing, Oh wait Amazon's EC2 and other such systems run on Windows do they??? Live Spaces?? Strange not heard about people livespacing each other half as much as they facebook... Mesh?? Nice idea, didn't really take off Groove?? They bought it Hotmail?? They bought it, tried to migrate from the unix based platform and it suffered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Oh yeah really! So they just copy or buy stuff! What about databases? What about XBox? What about Mobile OSs? What about Live Spaces? What about Mesh? What about Cloud Computing? What about Virtualization? these are outside browser, desktop, server OSs, Office suits etc etc. database? Ever heard of db2 or cics? Mainframe systems from the likes of unisys, IBM, icl etc predated Microsoft by decades nthe biggest database systems in the world and the most flexible run on big big iron. Trust me, databases and high availabilty on a global scale are my bread and butter. Mesh? Cloud? Virtualization? Hah. Mainframe systems and midrange enterprise stuff was doing virtualization back in the 70s before Microsoft was even founded. Don't make me laugh dude. Just like dual core or quad or octo core servers. Old hat in the tin that Microsoft and Linux runs on... Database and virtualisation and cloud/utility computing are just being reinvented by spin. It's old hat and nothing new. A "midrange" server of the class the serious players use can run upwards of 2056+ hosts, has 2+ terabytes of memory and a few petabytes of storage. Doesn't run Linux, nor windows. These are bi behemoth boxes for database and transaction workload and can be chopped and carved up in different combinations for what workload requires. That's virtualization. If you want a proper view of utility computing yes check out sun and amazons efforts. If you want a really impressive no expense spared peek of it check out googles caffiene datacentre approach, truly cloud, truly resilient but it costs billions to set that up. I'd love to see inside google, even work for them as I truly think they are trying to take over the net. Do no evil my a$$. Microsoft are big on the client front end for os and browsing, but if you think virtualization and database and arenas of that ilk are innovated and driven by ms then man you need to read up on things edit : there is one product I actually really like from ms that you failed to mention, sharepoint. A good collaboration tool which is very handy if you work in a global team and share/work across the world. Unsurprisngly ties in well with outlook, office and SQL and has a decent XML portion to it. They've got it working well, mebbe because they've got a monopoly on the other products it ties into. Either way, it makes my job easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 hah. Mainframe systems and midrange enterprise stuff was doing virtualization back in the 70s before microsoft was even founded. Don't make me laugh dude. vax/vms ftw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 This thread is still alive then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 database? Ever heard of db2 or cics? Mainframe systems from the likes of unisys, IBM, icl etc predated Microsoft by decades nthe biggest database systems in the world and the most flexible run on big big iron. Trust me, databases and high availabilty on a global scale are my bread and butter. Mesh? Cloud? Virtualization? Hah. Mainframe systems and midrange enterprise stuff was doing virtualization back in the 70s before Microsoft was even founded. Don't make me laugh dude. Just like dual core or quad or octo core servers. Old hat in the tin that Microsoft and Linux runs on... Database and virtualisation and cloud/utility computing are just being reinvented by spin. It's old hat and nothing new. A "midrange" server of the class the serious players use can run upwards of 2056+ hosts, has 2+ terabytes of memory and a few petabytes of storage. Doesn't run Linux, nor windows. These are bi behemoth boxes for database and transaction workload and can be chopped and carved up in different combinations for what workload requires. That's virtualization. If you want a proper view of utility computing yes check out sun and amazons efforts. If you want a really impressive no expense spared peek of it check out googles caffiene datacentre approach, truly cloud, truly resilient but it costs billions to set that up. I'd love to see inside google, even work for them as I truly think they are trying to take over the net. Do no evil my a$$. Microsoft are big on the client front end for os and browsing, but if you think virtualization and database and arenas of that ilk are innovated and driven by ms then man you need to read up on things edit : there is one product I actually really like from ms that you failed to mention, sharepoint. A good collaboration tool which is very handy if you work in a global team and share/work across the world. Unsurprisngly ties in well with outlook, office and SQL and has a decent XML portion to it. They've got it working well, mebbe because they've got a monopoly on the other products it ties into. Either way, it makes my job easier Mate I never said that MS is the first to build these!! Check my msgs and read them again. You sort of suggested in your msg regarding visio that MS doesnt develop stuff but rather they buy. So I suggest a list of their products in the market. A sort of cloud computing is what you can achieve with mainframes not full virtualization. You have to read up on virulization and also about VMware and HyperV to get an understanding of what full virtualization I am talking about! Ha ha what a joke, I never forgot about Sharepoint. That is the heart of our business and I did not mention it as most of thepeople may not be familiar with this product as they are with databases, browser, office or desktop OSs. Mate probably you might have forgotten but the whole argument is about the demise of MS and non-compliance with standards. All I am doing is to argue that it is too big to fail becoz apple comes out with an IPhone (biggest share product in market) or becoz Google comes out with Chrome! You wikll not see the demise of MS due to non compliance with standards becoz lots of companies using their products dont give a toss about compliance with standards, they are just happy with the products MS offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/08/microsoft-sponsors-two-nss-reports-ie8-is-the-most-secure.ars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Does IE8 have a spell checking function yet? *flame bait* EL8 : Dude, I will be honest with you now, I've been chuckling the whole time about this thread, not because you are wrong, some of your statements hold an element of truth, but purely because you are SOOO devoted to MS that you are blinded to the rest of the IT environment. There are products out there that suit particular jobs. I use Win7 for media systems purely because the graphics system is suited to what I need. HOWEVER MS is not the answer to everything going and some of their products are suspect just as much as some are good. I've worked at MS side-by-side with some of the 'evangelists' on solutions and to say they are passionate is an understatement. Passion however needs to be complimented with a modicum of understanding and practicality. Yes, microsoft have bought a lot of technology and rebranded, hell they did it with DOS back in the REAL early days of MS, that's how business works and in some cases companies improve products when they buy, some times they kill it. One thing I will say about MS, Cheesecake Tuesdays (I think it was tuesdays) at the Reading Campus were awesome but I didn't eat enough to get sucked into the whole 'MS is AWESUM' thing. The key phrase in all of this IMHO is 'The right tool for the job' and MS doesn't have them all. Lighten up a bit and try remove the blinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was reading in FHM earlier (a great source of future technology strategies and boobs) and they are saying google is going after MS in a big way. Apparantly they have a new FREE OS on the way that fully integrates the internet into your desktop removing the need for any MS products. The privacy implications of this are a little scary! Wouldn't surprise me if in the next decade google becomes what MS was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was reading in FHM earlier (a great source of future technology strategies and boobs) and they are saying google is going after MS in a big way. Apparantly they have a new FREE OS on the way that fully integrates the internet into your desktop removing the need for any MS products. The privacy implications of this are a little scary! Wouldn't surprise me if in the next decade google becomes what MS was. some reading here http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/20/google.os/index.html its available to download to try out already... http://dev.chromium.org/chromium-os If I was MS, I would be seriously concerned.......Desktop and Office are two massive cash cows for them.....until now...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Does IE8 have a spell checking function yet? *flame bait* EL8 : Dude, I will be honest with you now, I've been chuckling the whole time about this thread, not because you are wrong, some of your statements hold an element of truth, but purely because you are SOOO devoted to MS that you are blinded to the rest of the IT environment. There are products out there that suit particular jobs. I use Win7 for media systems purely because the graphics system is suited to what I need. HOWEVER MS is not the answer to everything going and some of their products are suspect just as much as some are good. I've worked at MS side-by-side with some of the 'evangelists' on solutions and to say they are passionate is an understatement. Passion however needs to be complimented with a modicum of understanding and practicality. Yes, microsoft have bought a lot of technology and rebranded, hell they did it with DOS back in the REAL early days of MS, that's how business works and in some cases companies improve products when they buy, some times they kill it. One thing I will say about MS, Cheesecake Tuesdays (I think it was tuesdays) at the Reading Campus were awesome but I didn't eat enough to get sucked into the whole 'MS is AWESUM' thing. The key phrase in all of this IMHO is 'The right tool for the job' and MS doesn't have them all. Lighten up a bit and try remove the blinkers. Your arguments and assumptions about me are totally worng. I never said MS has every solutions to the problem. Neither does any other company Ubuntu, Linux, Apple, Google, IBM, Oracle/SUN/Java, Nokia, Sony etc etc. I came from a RedHat/Ubuntu background and I can tell you becoz Apple has release IPhone/IPod/IPad or Google released Chrome browser/OS, Plam release PalmOS or Nokia release Latest Symbian, Sony release PS3 nothings going to see the demise of the biggest software company in this world. Also most of all they had $50bn cash sitting in MS accounts and they are going very strong with the largest developer network and the largest set of partnerships with other platforms. Now a days you can develop full fledged PHP applications for the Cloud using Visual Studio 2010. Full language and runtime support for PHP is jus an example the way microsoft is steering towards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Except Opera I think that chart just shows when Martin was online Not only was I using Opera 10.5 (very nice by the way. You can keep that Teletext simulator Lynx for yourselves, Luddites) but.... BUT..... I was also using Vista as well. Honestly, talk about getting caught with your pants down. In my defense I was playing Mass Effect 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Just some sample for you guys: I was there at this CES 2008 (Microsoft Surface) New Games controller (or no controller) coming in the next 3-5 months for XBox (Natal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I am using Firebox 3.5.7 on an XP Platform (At work) better than IE? Is Elton John still gay? I work in IT myself for a medium sized firm of 800 users (600 Lawyers). We use MS only because we have to, they have managed to get a good foot into the business world and have set standards which are pretty good. Though applications? Word? IE? No not very good. With regards to safety... my role is working in our Operations team where I look after all the servers in the firm, including our test lab and disaster recovery sites. Today is what we call patch day! MS have released another million loop holes which need to be patched! You won't believe the amount of patching I have to do on these servers & the amount of them IE related! Actually if I remember correctly were they not in the papers recently for an IE vulnerability which they did send me a emergency update for. If you have any question about MS, let me know... we have a lady in from MS in our office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Your arguments and assumptions about me are totally worng. I never said MS has every solutions to the problem. Neither does any other company Ubuntu, Linux, Apple, Google, IBM, Oracle/SUN/Java, Nokia, Sony etc etc. Linux isn't a company though..... Now a days you can develop full fledged PHP applications for the Cloud using Visual Studio 2010. Full language and runtime support for PHP is jus an example the way microsoft is steering towards. Really, I thought it was an external company that put vs.php together, not MS.... Just some sample for you guys: I was there at this CES 2008 (Microsoft Surface) Once again, you come out with 'Look at MS' propaganda, surface computing isn't new....MS didn't design it either, they have copied the technology from the NUI group. And yes they may have packaged nicely... It is in Vodafone stores if you have a look. How about organizing a group buy (needs to be authorised of course) for us or some free copies of Win7 then to show MS's dedication to their product and for the sales job you are attempting to do here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 This Project Natal thing isn't new tech either, I remember playing games on PC webcams years ago where you could bash balls into a net etc. just moving your hands around. There's also the eyepet, and eye of judgement games on the PS3 that use the technology well, and various other mini-games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 What a bunch of whiner -- oh my god they dont comply with standards and their browser is slow!! Yeah but their software runs on thousands of hardware and software platforms including mobiles, that has been the philosophy of microsoft right from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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