AlexJames Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 British scientists have reached into the shuttered world of a "lost" brain-damaged patient and communicated with him via his thoughts. Skip related content RELATED PHOTOS / VIDEOS Patient in vegetative state responds to questions The 29-year-old Belgian was able to answer "yes" and "no" to questions by conjuring up imaginary scenes while having his brain scanned. Before the extraordinary experiment the man, who suffered a severe head injury in a road accident in 2003, had shown no sign of being aware of the outside world. Five years ago he was presumed to have slipped from a coma to a vegetative state, but researchers now know that diagnosis was wrong, after he was able to respond to questions about his life as scientists monitored activity in his brain. On one occasion he was asked "is your father's name Alexander?" and correctly answered "yes" by imagining a tennis scene. When he was asked "is your father's name Thomas?" he answered "no" by thinking about roaming streets or walking around the house. The patient responded accurately to five out of six autobiographical questions posed by the scientists. Scientists admit to being "astonished" by the result, which has enormous implications for the care and treatment of vegetative patients. My question... how do they know the tennis scene means yes? http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100204/tuk-patient-in-vegetative-state-responds-dba1618.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 6/6 would have been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Does it mean he is experiencing any form of quality of life or is he locked in a broken body until the day his organs give up, scary stuff if you are aware of the world around you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Scientists admit to being "astonished" by the result, which has enormous implications for the care and treatment of vegetative patients. The thing is though, is it any quality of life? I've always been a supporter of euthanasia, and if you haven't had a chance to see Sir Terry Pratchet's lecture, I would advise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Does it mean he is experiencing any form of quality of life or is he locked in a broken body until the day his organs give up, scary stuff if you are aware of the world around you It must be horrific for people if they have any state of conciousness. How on earth can they tell wether he was thinking about tennis though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 what the hell has tennis got to do with a yes answer, maybe he liked tennis and was dreaming about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 It must be horrific for people if they have any state of conciousness. How on earth can they tell wether he was thinking about tennis though? Well thats my point, I would imagine his quality of life would be 0, .... always a hard topic... just the tennis quote baffles me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 what the hell has tennis got to do with a yes answer, maybe he liked tennis and was dreaming about it. Associative memories... In some cases as in the above, the 'person' is very much still in there, just has no means of communications or even reaction. Humans, by nature are creatures of habit and association. I still standby my comment of euthanasia, if it was me and the most I could muster was an eyelid movement or less, then please by all means stand on pipe that is labelled 'DO NOT CRUSH' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I would prefer a one way ticket to see the doctor in Switzerland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I still standby my comment of euthanasia, if it was me and the most I could muster was an eyelid movement or less, then please by all means stand on pipe that is labelled 'DO NOT CRUSH' That's a whole other topic. But quality of life is relative. If someone is a veg and lives their life in their dreams, is that any better worse than someone living in reality? Think the matrix... Once you're dead, that's it... you only get one life. Save euthansia for people that are in incredible pain or duress. I reckon you could be a veg and still be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I reckon you could be a veg and still be happy. Not with you on that, I enjoy life because of the things I do and people I get to spend it with. Being incapacitated to the point that I would have to rely on others 24/7 would not be fair on other people and it would affect the way they live theirs, and that is not who I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTRickeh Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 How on earth can they tell wether he was thinking about tennis though? or wondering the streets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 That's a whole other topic. But quality of life is relative. If someone is a veg and lives their life in their dreams, is that any better worse than someone living in reality? Think the matrix... Once you're dead, that's it... you only get one life. Save euthansia for people that are in incredible pain or duress. I reckon you could be a veg and still be happy. The incredible pain of listening to your wife/family/kids around you and you have no way of moving, communicating, just locked in a lifeless body until something fails and you die, that is hell on earth IMO and I would not wish that on my worse enemy. Your family only get one shot at life too and would you have them spend it sat next to you in a vegative state year after year or would you like them to grieve the loss and move on with their lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Not with you on that, I enjoy life because of the things I do and people I get to spend it with. Being incapacitated to the point that I would have to rely on others 24/7 would not be fair on other people and it would affect the way they live theirs, and that is not who I am. You're saying that like you know you would be aware of everything around you. Going back to that article, I'm sorry, but how does anyone know that Mr Veg is dreaming of a tennis court?!?! You can't visualise someone’s dreams! Do you not enjoy life when you're dreaming sometimes? If you can remember a dream from time to time that is. I've sometimes woken up thinking 'damn, wish I could have finished that dream off' You're looking at this too fundamentally; happiness is a state of mind, as is being a veg and dreaming all the time. I was once told a story about a child that was born almost a veg, bar his sense of smell. Apparently, because he didn't know any better, his brain waves showed signs of happiness and pleasure the majority of the time... He wasn't aware that a better life could have been, much like you wouldn't be aware if you were a veg (most likely). Whether or not it's right to rely on the society to keep you if you are a veg is yet again another topic... personally, I've paid my over inflated tax and N.I for a long time and they can keep me alive until I either pop out into reality or they can fix me... The incredible pain of listening to your wife/family/kids around you and you have no way of moving, communicating, just locked in a lifeless body until something fails and you die, that is hell on earth IMO and I would not wish that on my worse enemy. Your family only get one shot at life too and would you have them spend it sat next to you in a vegatated state year after year or would you like them to grieve the loss and move on with their lives You're talking like you will be aware in that state. That's another matter and another decision. Your post centres around the effect on others. If you're doomed, then maybe it's fair to pull the plug, but what if you would end up coming out of your comma / state, or they fixed you? I think this is one of those topics best left for individual circumstance. Playing with the life and dead switch with a sweeping comment is callous I suppose. I don't think I could say either way, as I'm not in that situation where I would have to make the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Your saying that like you know you would be aware of everything around you. Going back to that article, I'm sorry, but how does anyone know that Mr Veg is dreaming of a tennis court?!?! You can't visualise someones dreams! Do you not enjoy life when you're dreaming sometimes? If you can remember a dream from time to time, I've sometimes woken up thinking 'damn, wish I could have finished that dream off' You're looking at this too fundementally. Happiness is a state of mind, as is being a veg and dreaming all the time. I was once told a story about a child that was born almost a veg, bar his sense of smell. Apparently, because he didn't know any better, his brain waves showed signs of happiness and pleasure the majority of the time... He wasn't aware that a better life could have been, much like you wouldn't be aware if you were a veg. Whether or not it's right to rely on the society to keep you if you are a veg is yet again another topic... personally, I've paid my over inflated tax and N.I for a long time and they can keep me alive until I either pop out into reality or they can fix me... Weirdly when I read your posts, my eyes glaze over and I start to relax into a basic Theta state It's hard to come out of it. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. Forty love. Net! Out! For me though, I think I'd like them to pull the plug and use their resources to help others who have more chance of a decent quality of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me though, I think I'd like them to pull the plug and use their resources to help others who have more chance of a decent quality of life. Very noble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I would definately want the plug to be pulled. Imagine just your mind trapped in a useless body, you'd have all the time in the world to re-run the mistakes etc you'd made in your life, you'd be forever sitting in the 'waiting room' trying to keep your mind amused with nothing. As for the happy dream senario, what about nightmares? This sound too much like 'Vanilla Sky'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 They used tennis because its something to do with motor skills and the cortex, activates other areas of the brain. Was on telly last night. Im an advocate of euthanasia, I strongly believe you should be able to choose when and where to end your own life, maybe put it in your will as an option, like organ donation, should you not be of sound mind. Why should bleeding heart liberals have the final say on whether you want to die or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 What if you 'euthanaise' (spelling?!) someone then 6 months later there is a medical breakthrough that could drastically alter their way of life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Being a veg is no quality of life, I would rather be dead and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. What if you 'euthanaise' (spelling?!) someone then 6 months later there is a medical breakthrough that could drastically alter their way of life? Hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'll go one further than being in a vegative state, my wife used to be a care nurse in elderly people homes. The stories I heard from her make me never want to end up in one of them places. Life has lost all dignity for some of the poor people in them places and I'd never want to burden anyone like that. I'll be making efforts to go out with a bang in some spectacular outrageous fashion before I get to that stage, and I'll make sure it gets on youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I believe the mechanism is not to actually imagine a tennis game per se, but to conjure imagery of watching something moving left and right, like watching a tennis game from the mid-way point of the court. The motor part of the brain, whilst it can't trigger any actual muscular manipulation can be mointored reasonably accurately to monitor attempted visual manipulation - something similar to the way your eyes still move whilst in REM sleep even though the rest of your muscles are "paralysed", I believe (although without the actual eye movement, of course). The media just simplify it to "imagining a game of tennis", mainly to make people go, "huh? How does that work" and keep reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Weirdly when I read your posts, my eyes glaze over and I start to relax into a basic Theta state It's hard to come out of it. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. Forty love. Net! Out! For me though, I think I'd like them to pull the plug and use their resources to help others who have more chance of a decent quality of life. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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