tbourner Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I really need to sort my PC out, it's years old and the system on it has never been reloaded I just bodge it from 1 PC to the other - I have 4 HDDs (only 2 installed) so I just ghost and copy from one upgrade to the next!! Basically I think I need to sort it out. So I'm planning on building a better system (still very basic by some of your standards though), loading a fresh system and just having one other drive in as my media drive. Is this a good idea? I know Windows and other software (like iTunes which I don't like) always want to store stuff on the C drive in My Docs and stuff which I find quite annoying - so is it better to just have 1 drive and work from it? I never thought it was very safe to do that (and I've survived a few BSoD over the years doing it my way!!!). Also, should I attempt to have 2 media drives in a RAID of some kind? Windows software RAID control good enough? Maybe just have 2 drives RAID as my C drive and let the software have its way? I'd need 2 drives the same size then though which at the moment I don't have. Next big thing is the build itself, I always get confused with which motherboard I can install in which case, and which PSU I need. Last time I upgraded I got a relatively cheap case and PSU from Novatech and it's the loudest thing in the world - which has banned it to the spare room for the last 3 years!! Can someone recommend a CHEAP setup? Case/PSU/m-board/CPU&fan/memory? Should I go Intel or AMD? I only use it for surfing, the odd video (mostly youtube type but very occasionally something bigger), music (syncing iPod etc.) and admin stuff (just Office - typing docs and creating spreadsheets). I NEVER use it for gaming or anything like that although I'd like to get a mic and camera and get Skype. At the mo I only have an Athlon 64 3800 with 512MB of RAM so that shows you how fast it (doesn't) needs to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky1978 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Trev, i have ALWAYS used overclockers for my PC upgrade parts and have NEVER had a problem with any thing (touch wood). Fairly cheap and they have pre-built systems ready to order. They can build one for you too if you dont mind waiting a couple of days. http://www.overclockers.co.uk Hope this helps. Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I always find overclockers very very expensive funnily enough lol. Anyway... How much are you looking to spend? Can get something thrown together for you no bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 ebuyer is sometimes good for components. Get 4 reasonable good sized HDDs and setup Raid-5 or 6. Or get 2 and use Raid 1 (for instance though 2 x 1000Gb HDDs will only give you 1000Gb usable in Raid 1) Do you use it for any games at all? or surround sound? If not you could go for a motherboard with both sound and graphics on board and save money. If you're not a big gamer no point buying a separate GPU, you may as well spend the money on ram or HDDs etc. It may be good to hold off 2-4 weeks though as Intel are still going through a product transition with the new processor architecture, so CPU prices will take a good drop sometime in Feb I am speculating. And as Scott said, what's your budget? How long do you want this puppy to last for? Oh and don't scrimp on a good PSU or a nice multiplug with a surge protector. Those two components are the death of most computers. Happy like others to help you build up a spec I'm sure with what you are doing something like a low quad core like an intel i3/i5 or core-2-quad will see you through a good 3-4 years+. Edit : Oh yeah you concerned about form factor? i.e. does it have to be in a really small case or some normal size etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I use overclockers for parts, very good value. Use hardware RAID if available on your MOBO, unless you're not bothered about performance then software RAID will be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 FWIW I know you have mentoned RAID but I would even bother with it. It is only really of any use if what you store on your PC is important. I ran RAID on one of my personal drives in the past but don't bother at all now. Other than my pictures and home videos I don't have anything I can't get back. I'm building a modist spec for you just now in Ebuyer (Who I tend to use). The budget is going to be the main driver for the longevity of the PC but as you have got by with what you have for years would lead me to believe what I am speccing up just now will last easily the same again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I use overclockers for parts, very good value. Use hardware RAID if available on your MOBO, unless you're not bothered about performance then software RAID will be fine Was using software raid testing an array we have at work 180 x 1Tb 7200rpm sata disks and got a reasonable 1050Mb/s transfer speed. 79 Tb usable from 180 disks is a bit painful though. Does run a tad warm tho Trick raid system too... Trev, for your use though probably raid-5 if you can do it, get 4 x reasonable disks and raid them together, raid-5 will give you more space that you can actually use. Raid-1 generally is a there for performance, rather than use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 FWIW I know you have mentoned RAID but I would even bother with it. It is only really of any use if what you store on your PC is important. I ran RAID on one of my personal drives in the past but don't bother at all now. Did you really have to say that thought? Just think you're cursing yourself there now... JBOD really is painful. Surely raid-5 at the minimum? I mean how many photos and such do you have? And don't you think with your new SLR that you're gonna be creating a lot more and wanting to keep them? I'm building a modist spec for you just now in Ebuyer (Who I tend to use). The budget is going to be the main driver for the longevity of the PC but as you have got by with what you have for years would lead me to believe what I am speccing up just now will last easily the same again. Heh did the same for another member on here a few weeks ago, it's quite hard to beat a few of the manufacturers offering packages because of their volume buying than it was 3-4 years ago. So an i7 packed full of DDR3 yeah? Spec I drew up about a month ago for someone as a starting base with a good CPU. Can be fettled of course, and prices should be a bit cheaper now Looking I built a 4-core Intel rig, 4Gb memory, case, blu-ray drive, 1000Gb HDD, nice Nvidia graphic card with HDMI out (if you want to put to your telly) for £500.53 inc vat + delivery. Could bump it to 2000Gb of HDD space and still be under £580 all in. Building them isn't as scary as many think, plugs are colour coded and most things will only fit in one slot so fairly obvious. Taking out the HDMI card will lower the cost and swap mobo for onboard GPU, the blu-ray drives you may as well have now, they're not much and will be more in use from end of this year onwards.. Linky to all components : http://www.dabs.com/products/best-va...450w-5HM3.html http://www.dabs.com/products/intel-c...etai-695D.html http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-s7...rnet-64MX.html http://www.dabs.com/products/kingsto...-cl9-5KNM.html http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyt...hdmi-68R8.html http://www.dabs.com/products/best-va...sata-622F.html http://www.dabs.com/products/western...64mb-6CZJ.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Was using software raid testing an array we have at work 180 x 1Tb 7200rpm sata disks and got a reasonable 1050Mb/s transfer speed. 79 Tb usable from 180 disks is a bit painful though. Does run a tad warm tho Trick raid system too... Trev, for your use though probably raid-5 if you can do it, get 4 x reasonable disks and raid them together, raid-5 will give you more space that you can actually use. Raid-1 generally is a there for performance, rather than use. He's on about a home PC though.. I don't think he'll be able to fit all that in his chassis lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 He's on about a home PC though.. I don't think he'll be able to fit all that in his chassis lol Admittedly not, did run on 3-phase and weighed in at close to 950kg... I'd have one though. Admittedly leccy bill would be high but you wouldn't need the central heating on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Did you really have to say that thought? Just think you're cursing yourself there now... JBOD really is painful. Surely raid-5 at the minimum? I mean how many photos and such do you have? And don't you think with your new SLR that you're gonna be creating a lot more and wanting to keep them? Heh did the same for another member on here a few weeks ago, it's quite hard to beat a few of the manufacturers offering packages because of their volume buying than it was 3-4 years ago. So an i7 packed full of DDR3 yeah? I tend to have all my photos in a few locations so they are pretty well covered for now Wish I could afford an i7 setup let alone putting one together on a modist budget lol. I have came up with this. It isn't as cheap as it could go but nothing here is generic. That tends to be the issue with the manufacturers systems. I have selected the motherboard as it supports DDR3 ram which is just as cheap as DDR2 now. I chose the processor as it is lower spec & cheap but can very easily be upgraded at any time in the future. The power pack is a very capable piece of kit and although not the best on the market, or anywhere near it, it is a very capable bit of kit. GFX card is a bottom of the range HDMI unit. I chose it as it was only £1 more expensive than the non-HDMI version. The fan is a very efficient one and with the arctic paste it will look after your processor very well. Case is just cheap tat and can be substituted for any one of your choice. Just go with looks and leave hte side off.. job done lol. The Samsung spinpoint drives are a bit of a luxury more than a necessity. Seriously though, they are the best drives for the money that I have ever came across. The speed of them is frightening. I see 110mb/s on Nero Drive check with ease. Most other drives I have tried are 80 and lower. I haven't added in RAM as I am not sure how much you want. 2GB of decent stuff will be a maximum of £50. Now, this PC is only a couple of expensive components away from a bloody fast machine. Seriously, it isn't a million miles off. It can be easily upgraded in the future to be much faster than it is now. You do have a million options though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Wish I could afford an i7 setup let alone putting one together on a modist budget lol. Far far cheaper than the fecking Xeon version I have running in my PC. Intel/Apple are bloody fascists on price. All for a different bit of cache and memory controller. Desktop is still years behind the enterprise space. Some of the kit in use now at work is staggering. Check out the Power7 kit from IBM (power4 was in the gamecube and Apple macs) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/27/ibm_power7_hpc_server/ And that's just a 'book' of CPU and memory, all those dimms down the right hand side? 8Gb DD3 a piece. I'll stop being geeky now... Now, this PC is only a couple of expensive components away from a bloody fast machine. Seriously, it isn't a million miles off. It can be easily upgraded in the future to be much faster than it is now. You do have a million options though. Looks like a good spec, I'd still recommend adding a blu-ray drive for the cost of them now. A lot cheaper but admittedly slower spec than I quoted above. Wondering what his budget is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Far far cheaper than the fecking Xeon version I have running in my PC. Intel/Apple are bloody fascists on price. All for a different bit of cache and memory controller. Desktop is still years behind the enterprise space. Some of the kit in use now at work is staggering. Check out the Power7 kit from IBM (power4 was in the gamecube and Apple macs) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/27/ibm_power7_hpc_server/ http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/11/26/power7_ih_node.jpg And that's just a 'book' of CPU and memory, all those dimms down the right hand side? 8Gb DD3 a piece. I'll stop being geeky now... Looks like a good spec, I'd still recommend adding a blu-ray drive for the cost of them now. A lot cheaper but admittedly slower spec than I quoted above. Wondering what his budget is That is absolutely insane! For the spec I went with the minimum that I would go with personally. Blu-ray wasn't mentioned but it would be a nice thing to have, as you say, given the price The more money the more horses can be added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Wow lots of replies!! I knew you guys wouldn't disappoint on this kind of thread! Now, this PC is only a couple of expensive components away from a bloody fast machine. Seriously, it isn't a million miles off. It can be easily upgraded in the future to be much faster than it is now. You do have a million options though. Looks good! I can actually build it all myself as I do work with computers believe it or not! We only have high spec servers at work though so I know how to set up 10G iSCSI cards and 6GB SAS HBAs but not a basic CHEAP home PC! If I didn't bother with the HDDs I'd need to keep mine - I've currently got a 60GB as my C and a 400GB as my media, and I've got 260GB free on it! So maybe I'll just upgrade to the bigger RAID at a later date. It is only pics and music and stuff that I don't want to lose, nothing massively important - I suppose I should backup all that stuff anyway. What about an OS? I've got my old original copy of XP Home, is it worth getting 7? I'm not into 'aquiring' copies of stuff any more - admittedly my Office is an old copy of XP that I 'aquired' from work but it does the job for now, I'm happy to stick with XP Home as well but I guess it'll go the way of 98 soon and be pretty useless? Maybe save money on HDDs and get W7. I keep considering putting Linux on as well but I just don't feel comfortable with it yet (using it at work more now so maybe one day). Budget? CHEAP! Seriously; the cheapest it can be. REALLY don't need power in this system. As long as it can run Word, iTunes, Internet and email all at the same time I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I know how to set up 10G iSCSI cards and 6GB SAS HBAs but not a basic CHEAP home PC! iSCSI? 8Gb FC for the win! What about an OS? Can't remember when XP is finally going out of support, but it will be soon. Either go with Windows 7 or get an Ubuntu setup? Budget? CHEAP! Seriously; the cheapest it can be. REALLY don't need power in this system. As long as it can run Word, iTunes, Internet and email all at the same time I'm happy. Cool Scott's spec is more than adequate. You could chop out the HDMI graphics card if you're not putting it to a TV screen then and either lower the cost by £20 odd or add in a blu-ray drive That with 2Gb of ram should meet minimum req's for Windows 7 and easily run what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I would recommend getting one of the samsung spinpoint drives mate. They make all the difference in booting up time as well as running programs etc. Granted 1tb is overkill for what you need but the smaller ones are nowhere near as quick. I don't know the ins and outs of the technology but the 3 layers of the TB drive is where I read the secret lies. If you had that as your main OS drive and then used one of the other large drives for your media & pictures etc. Another Idea would be to use 2 of them and you could run them in raid mode? Have the spinpoint as your main drive and 2 of the other drives in RAID? At the moment I have 4HDD's in my PC. The only thing you need to be careful with is the power required to run them all. I wouldn't go any cheaper than what I recommended. You could save a few bob on the RAM by getting a slower varient of the DDR3 (approx £30), and you could also save approx £10-£15 on the processor by going for a slower one. I wouldn't spend any less on the motherboard as it can take high spec processors & RAM in case you decide to spend money in the future. Personally I wouldn't bother with raid, back up your photo's to DVD or have them on 2 seperate drives manually. There is no point in buying an expensive HDD to use raid for the sake of a few GB worth of pics. That is the way I look at it anyway. If I had a drive that was important then I would do it. Up to you of course. I would definitely go with windows 7. It just has the fresh and modern look that a nawties OS should have. XP just looks dated to me now. You can go with the 64bit variant with that particular processor so that is another advantage for the future. The performance of the system will blow your socks off. If it were me, I would go with what I suggested with 2 fresh and new spinpoint F3's. I would install Windows 7 and then I would plug in your old HDD's to backup all the stuff you want to keep. The machine would fly mate. The HDD's can be removed as requried to save cash though, that is just what I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Yes use 7 if you can. Sooo much better. I spent hours and hours a few weeks ago looking around all the different pc component sites and it was just as cheap and easier to get it all from ebuyer. I use 2 x 500gb spinpoint F3 drives and they do perform quite well. Get someone to help setup your page files etc and put things like games on another hdd and keep the OS seperate on another disk as this speeds things up also. I cant be arsed to go into too much detail but plenty on da tinterweb innit. But there are online shops that will build or supply uou a fairly stable system for not much more than it will cost to build one if your not happy about putting it all together. Next purchase for me is some solid state hdd's and another 4gb of ram. Buy yourself a 1tb externall harddrive aswel so you can plonk all the stuff you really dont want to loose and you can also take it with you if a friend wants to "lend" you some fils or music. They are so cheap now its not worth the risk of loosing all them years of photos and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 iSCSI? 8Gb FC for the win! Can't remember when XP is finally going out of support, but it will be soon. Either go with Windows 7 or get an Ubuntu setup? Cool Scott's spec is more than adequate. You could chop out the HDMI graphics card if you're not putting it to a TV screen then and either lower the cost by £20 odd or add in a blu-ray drive That with 2Gb of ram should meet minimum req's for Windows 7 and easily run what you want. Unfortunately the GFX card was only £23. Dropping out the HDMI in favour of a non-HDMI would only save £1 lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Just to show.... I was copying over a lot of data between my F1 drive and my F3 drive and thought I would show the speeds achievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 We've got some 200GB SSDs in work at the mo, we stuck Windows Server 2003 on one of them and put it into an ATX Server system (quite a quick dual quad-core with 4GB RAM) and it was quite brilliant how much quicker it was than the standard 2.5" HDD! Things like the 'add/remove programs' list came up straight away, so I'd love to go SSD eventually especially for the boot drive - prices are dropping rather quick - another reason to stick with the drives I've got? Mind you HDDs are so damn cheap now for 1TB or bigger I suppose it's not really worth waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 We've got some 200GB SSDs in work at the mo, we stuck Windows Server 2003 on one of them and put it into an ATX Server system (quite a quick dual quad-core with 4GB RAM) and it was quite brilliant how much quicker it was than the standard 2.5" HDD! Things like the 'add/remove programs' list came up straight away, so I'd love to go SSD eventually especially for the boot drive - prices are dropping rather quick - another reason to stick with the drives I've got? Mind you HDDs are so damn cheap now for 1TB or bigger I suppose it's not really worth waiting. I've been waiting on SSD's coming down in price for about 2 years. When they eventually come down to a reasonable price I will have 1 with my OS & programs on it but I will still have my 2 Spinpoint drives in there with it Will need to buy another one when money allows. My aim is 3 spinpoints and an SSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Plethora Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I wanted to come into this thread with a nice budget build but really if you are using it for basic stuff, browsing, email, skype etc I would stick with what you have. 512mb RAM is very low these days, have a look on ebuyer for DDR1 PC3200 RAM, try and get 2 sticks of 1GB which should not cost you much. Secondly I would get a faster boot drive, something like a western digital velociraptor or other 10,000rpm drive. For a fairly modest upgrade your system will be far quicker than it currently is, plus you can use your old boot drive as a media drive or something as well. I am all for upgrading big but wouldnt upgrade till you really need it and for browsing the web ? save your cash for supra stuff for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pot Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 We've got some 200GB SSDs in work at the mo *Dribbles*... A good priced decent capacity SSD is next on my thinks to buy list - As well as figuring out my quiet 12TB Media Server I want to build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 *Dribbles*... A good priced decent capacity SSD is next on my thinks to buy list - As well as figuring out my quiet 12TB Media Server I want to build Wow, what you looking to store? I have 3 and i'm looking to up it to 4 in the future. I thought that was overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 We're developing a 5U84 system at the moment, which can house 84 SAS drives, and we're getting 2.5TB drives in this year!! That's a LOT of storage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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