The Official 2010 F1 Thread!

[Bailey.]

Vettal engine blowout sensational. Bits and bobs everywhere.

 

It made getting up at 6-30 all worth it!!!

[RedM]

It made getting up at 6-30 all worth it!!!

 

Pah! I was up at six.

[Bailey.]

But I was up at 4 On saterday morning....... Do I win now!!!

[imi]

Alonso's on a roll here.......great finish to the season; yet again have a feeling that red bull will blow it.

 

the mclarens dont seem settled at all with hamilton making way too many mistakes in the wet and button being a good 4 sec behind and struggling to keep up with the tail enders......

[Rich8v]

So does vettel have a spare engine, or will he get a penalty?

[imi]

So does vettel have a spare engine, or will he get a penalty?

 

apparently he has engines that still have some mileage on them

[caseys]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9127533.stm

 

A remarkably good article for the BBC..

 

From Valencia onwards however, the Renault engine was running software that retarded the ignition off-throttle, using the extra heat created to maintain exhaust flow to the diffuser even off-throttle.

 

I'm quite surprised by this. I would've thought that if that's feasable then some sort of traction control is possible which is banned under the one ECU type rule.

[TLicense]

I believe some teams have developed perfectly legal ways that effectively give you "traction control".

[johnny g]

Goes back to the old Benneton days! I thought that wasn't possible with the standard-ECU? Some clever sods out there...

[caseys]

Goes back to the old Benneton days! I thought that wasn't possible with the standard-ECU? Some clever sods out there...

 

That's what I thought, ECU is controlled, but then they have maps to run rich/lean depending upon race point / fuel saving etc, also I assume rev limits and timing etc.

 

Wonder where all that's stored.

[johnny g]

There again, the McLaren do also have something like that. I wonder if it's controlled on the overun? WAY over my head!

[caseys]

C'mon Tony, give us some pointers of what we should be looking at / reading

[Whitesupraboy2]

well i reckon the blow diffuser is similar in mapping style to what turbo lag is in the mapping. As that uses overun / idling engine to keep something working which requires certain conditions.

 

My guess regarding some sort of traction control....rather then monitoring wheels, they maybe work out maximum amount of fuel that could be required with perfect grip for that speed / rpm and limit the fuel in the map somehow! if the engine looks to be about to require to much fuel it hits its limit as such and cant overrev for the speed and give more wheel spin.....who knows but i like my theory

 

hence why they have a certain map for the way to the grid...the launch and the race, all varying slightly to give so much wheel spin.

[johnny g]

I remember an old quote from Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director, from early 2000's

 

There’s a big difference between traction control and traction optimisation. This brings us back to pre-launch-control days, when there were rumours about some teams using illegal traction control. You can do things based on known grip levels. Teams can say: “We know exactly how much grip we’re going to have with these types of tyres on this surface, so let’s modulate the power through fuel and ignition in order to optimise grip. So however much the driver puts his foot on the throttle, we won’t give him any more than this much power.” They can do that. Traction control is measuring the grip and altering the power as a consequence. That’s very different. Now, as far as we’re concerned, as long as the throttle and clutch are under the direct control of the driver during the launch period – from the moment at which the car comes to a stop on the grid to the time it reaches 100km/h – everything is fine. After that, traction control can take over.

 

I guess it's almost open-loop vs closed-loop. Interesting stuff, though.

[caseys]

I remember an old quote from Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director, from early 2000's

 

 

 

I guess it's almost open-loop vs closed-loop. Interesting stuff, though.

 

Now we're getting into semantics. Traction control?

 

Well traction is defined as adhesive friction or force in the context of vehicle

 

And what they did power modulation, making sure you don't exceed the amount of force which could be applied.

 

I'd love to see the FIA's description of traction control. As there's no software method of controlling traction/adhesion, there is only ways of limiting exceeding your tractive/adhesive limit aka wheelspin. Traction is a physical property, we may as well call it 'grip-control' as that'd be an equally confusing term.

 

I had worming semantics.

[TLicense]

C'mon Tony, give us some pointers of what we should be looking at / reading

 

lol, and give all the secrets away!

[caseys]

lol, and give all the secrets away!

 

I was more after how *other* teams are applying it that are probably known in the paddock. The Renault engine one is the only one I've heard of so far.

 

No problem if you can't, just curious/interested in it.

 

What's your opinion btw of the 1.6L Turbo engine idea being thrown about? I bet the power curve will make things interesting, but the sound will never be as good as a V8/V10 on full chat I dread to think what a turbo engine can do now considering what the BMW F1 turbo engine was throwing out in quali trim.

[tbourner]

Why don't F1 cars have clear shells over the cockpit? Someone at work mentioned it, is it in the rules? Or is it just something that doesn't actually give an advantage?

[caseys]

Why don't F1 cars have clear shells over the cockpit? Someone at work mentioned it, is it in the rules? Or is it just something that doesn't actually give an advantage?

 

It'd be a huge aero improvement. Same as covered wheels

[TLicense]

The rules prohibit any bodywork in that area, but really only to keep the series open cockpit as having it closed would change fundamentally the flavour of the sport.

I think fans like being able to see the drivers.

[TLicense]

I was more after how *other* teams are applying it that are probably known in the paddock. The Renault engine one is the only one I've heard of so far.

 

No problem if you can't, just curious/interested in it.

 

What's your opinion btw of the 1.6L Turbo engine idea being thrown about? I bet the power curve will make things interesting, but the sound will never be as good as a V8/V10 on full chat I dread to think what a turbo engine can do now considering what the BMW F1 turbo engine was throwing out in quali trim.

 

It's a standard ECU so all teams will most likely have the similar systems in place. It's just a case of thinking of the different ways you can utilise the functionality that the SECU has.

 

What engine goes into the car, to be honest, doesn't bother me. I imagine it'll be limited to give out more or less the same power as the current engines, and the different manufacturers engines would all be homologated to give more or less the same overall performance.

[caseys]

I imagine it'll be limited to give out more or less the same power as the current engines, and the different manufacturers engines would all be homologated to give more or less the same overall performance.

 

See that's just boring. I can understand restricting cylinder count, valve count and capacity and possibly intake volume from the turbo.. but after that I'd love to see people have a fairly free roam.

 

Homologation just leads to boring "we've all got the same power and it's not adjustable so we can't overtake" races.

 

Let the driver / team control the boost, let them play with longevity, let them throw a rod through the side of the engine in a fit of overtaking power-mad moment Bring back 100k/rpm turbos and mad 1500BHP peak power curves

[Thorin]

Bring back 100k/rpm turbos and mad 1500BHP peak power curves

 

Well we've got to wait until 2013 for that

 

Doubt they'll see anywhere near 1500BHP though since they're likely to be

[johnny g]

Well we've got to wait until 2013 for that

 

Doubt they'll see anywhere near 1500BHP though since they're likely to be

 

I'm sure one of the Renault F1 Turbo's was a 1.5ltr engine that did 1500bhp in Qualifying trim?

[Bailey.]

I'm sure one of the Renault F1 Turbo's was a 1.5ltr engine that did 1500bhp in Qualifying trim?

 

yep 1.5l turbo, just found this

 

http://www.f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1712&start=0