CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Where did I say that? Pretty sure I used the word punish and not revenge? I just surmised that your idea that families of victims getting respite from punishment must involve a certain amount of revenge - otherwise the current penal system would suffice. its about all of the above, the piece of mind for the public that a criminal is being dealt with and the family knows something has been done about it. So, no real answer to why it doesn't act as a deterrent then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 What about if you say, had an arguement with your wife, got in your car, sped off and accidently knocked someone over and killed them. With the current justice system you would likely go to jail where you would have to live with the impact of what you had done. Under eye for an eye are we saying its acceptable for the family of the deceased to then run that person over? That would be an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I just surmised that your idea that families of victims getting respite from punishment must involve a certain amount of revenge - otherwise the current penal system would suffice. No, if the families felt justice had been done they wouldn't feel the need for revenge. So, no real answer to why it doesn't act as a deterrent then? Yes, it isn't a threat. How long was the death pentalty in the UK and not used? FWIW I don't believe in the death penalty, I think their should be a lack of life if given a jailterm though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 That would be an accident. And if you were in a fight, punched someone very hard and they fell, cracked their skull and died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 And if you were in a fight, punched someone very hard and they fell, cracked their skull and died? Manslaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 ....Yes, it isn't a threat. How long was the death pentalty in the UK and not used? FWIW I don't believe in the death penalty, I think their should be a lack of life if given a jailterm though. Can you elaborate on that please? Do you mean a less comfy prison existence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 You do realised that you've just published your intent to carry out a criminal offence in the public area of an internet forum? i never, just said they will have justice not that i would do it. i belive in carma im a peacfull soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Can you elaborate on that please? Do you mean a less comfy prison existence? Remove all things such as tv pool tables and etc they are there as a punishment not to have a easy time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Can you elaborate on that please? Do you mean a less comfy prison existence? Yeah. I accept that different crimes should have fitting punishments. Maximum security for murder should be just that though. Spoke to a chef a few years ago, he worked in a maximum security prison. They were given 3 options for every meal, and the meals were all produced to a high standard. Have you read about the homeless committing crimes to get into prison? Sounds laughable but it is true, and it is the reason most hardened criminals really don't fear prison. To be honest I don't fear prison, I fear what my life would be like after a prison sentence... getting a job, etc etc etc. It's a bit of a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Manslaughter. But would the victims relatives or certain posters on here want an "eye for an eye" in that situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Yeah. I accept that different crimes should have fitting punishments. Maximum security for murder should be just that though. Spoke to a chef a few years ago, he worked in a maximum security prison. They were given 3 options for every meal, and the meals were all produced to a high standard. Have you read about the homeless committing crimes to get into prison? Sounds laughable but it is true, and it is the reason most hardened criminals really don't fear prison. To be honest I don't fear prison, I fear what my life would be like after a prison sentence... getting a job, etc etc etc. It's a bit of a joke. I agree 100% with this. I believe that prison is only a deterrent if you have a family outside that you love and would obviously miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 But would the victims relatives or certain posters on here want an "eye for an eye" in that situation? I believe this "eye for an eye" situation was raised because of someone who has gone out with intent to harm someone, for example the OP mentioned the 2 guys who went & cut this women's ears & nose off because her father said he will not let him marry her. In this situation what would you suggest be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I agree 100% with this. I believe that prison is only a deterrent if you have a family outside that you love and would obviously miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 But would the victims relatives or certain posters on here want an "eye for an eye" in that situation? If you think about it a modern and western version of this would be to remove said person from his life. lock him away from life no human rights as he surrendered these when taking a life. If it was premeditated then death sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I believe this "eye for an eye" situation was raised because of someone who has gone out with intent to harm someone, for example the OP mentioned the 2 guys who went & cut this women's ears & nose off because her father said he will not let him marry her. In this situation what would you suggest be done? As an outsider i.e someone not directly involved I really have no idea as to what should be done. But if you are asking me what i would want done had the victim been one of my children then i would have wanted them executed. Not because I feel it would be a deterrent. Not because I feel it would be suitable punishment. I would want it purely for revenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 if some intentionally harms someone with malice then i think the eye for an eye aproach is perfect. if someone crashes a car and kills someone then that different. and it should be delt with accordingly in this case 2 men of superior size and strenth have visiously deformed a powerless woman, nothing is to bad for these perthetic cowardly excuses for men imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 If you think about it a modern and western version of this would be to remove said person from his life. lock him away from life no human rights as he surrendered these when taking a life. If it was premeditated then death sentence. But this is where I struggle It was a fight that had devastating consequences but the protagonists never for one minute intended to murder anyone. In fact, had the victim not fallen in that particular place, the likelihood would be that the fight would have stopped and each would have gone on about their lives but now, under your rules, that one punch means the other guy gets locked away forever. I cannot, in all good conscience, agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 it was their choice to fight so they deal with the consequences. If they did not fight then nothing would have happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 But this is where I struggle It was a fight that had devastating consequences but the protagonists never for one minute intended to murder anyone. In fact, had the victim not fallen in that particular place, the likelihood would be that the fight would have stopped and each would have gone on about their lives but now, under your rules, that one punch means the other guy gets locked away forever. I cannot, in all good conscience, agree with that. i can see this point , if ther is no intend on killing some one then it would be wrong to issue such a hard sentence , after all even when fighting accidents do happen. bu in the case of premeditated attacks , ther should be tuffer punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 As said before my views are different to others so your not going to agree as you see it differently. This can go on , on, and on so how about we agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 it was their choice to fight so they deal with the consequences. If they did not fight then nothing would have happened So, by your reasoning, if you are out one night and some guy abuses your lady and you confront him. This then leads to a fight and to you punching him once and killing him as he fell and hit his head. Should you then be locked up forever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 So, by your reasoning, if you are out one night and some guy abuses your lady and you confront him. This then leads to a fight and to you punching him once and killing him as he fell and hit his head. Should you then be locked up forever? Yes, taking a life is taking a life, it was my choice to hit him causing him to fall. It was my fault due to my actions it was an accident that he hit his head but not a accident that I hit him. Its like saying I stabbed someone but accidentally hit a main artery, I meant to wound not kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 So you say Oi leave her alone and he starts hitting you, you should take it incase you kill him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 So you say Oi leave her alone and he starts hitting you, you should take it incase you kill him? It comes down to that thing again called "choice", You decide what to do if it goes tits up then you deal with the consequences its in your hands at all time. You decide, he might fall he might not but if he does its your fault. As i'm sure if you do something wrong its your fault. Correct me if im wrong as if I am I will tell the police its not my fault im speeding its sams as she wants to get home quicker, next time i get pulled over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Cutting off the hands of starving thieves is where it always went too far. Agree. Not sure what law actually professes such a punishment or where it is practised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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