Abz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 By a solid 5 mins too Sorry got distracted by last night's thoughts Got Angel & Demon's on DVD so going to watch this now, will catch with you guys later! This is a good thread though, shows have people seen the same item in different views! Will pick up again on this later when Jake changes his mind I doubt he will though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Could he have avoided being in possession? Yes, easily. He's not some blushing virgin who's never had any dealings with the police. The guy is a convicted violent criminal who is not unknown to carry a weapon. Depite this, when he 'found' a sawn-off shotgun did he decide to not touch it with a bargepole and to just call 999? No. Instead, he took it home. He then kept it for a few days before eventually deciding to give it to a cop he knows. He didn't invite the cop to his house, he arranged to meet him elsewhere and took the sawn-off out in public again. Is there some reason the guy likes walking around tooled up? Having already been done for it once, he doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to avoid it again. If nothing else, the guy is a complete spanner. At best he got himself nicked through his naivety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 if he had phoned the police, it would of taken them five days to turn up and collect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Could he have avoided being in possession? Yes, easily. He's not some blushing virgin who's never had any dealings with the police. The guy is a convicted violent criminal who is not unknown to carry a weapon. Depite this, when he 'found' a sawn-off shotgun did he decide to not touch it with a bargepole and to just call 999? No. Instead, he took it home. He then kept it for a few days before eventually deciding to give it to a cop he knows. He didn't invite the cop to his house, he arranged to meet him elsewhere and took the sawn-off out in public again. Is there some reason the guy likes walking around tooled up? Having already been done for it once, he doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to avoid it again. If nothing else, the guy is a complete spanner. At best he got himself nicked through his naivety. On a personal level I totally agree with you. The law is the law though, it doesn't change because a guy is a spanner. This will definitely put people off coming forward with arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave17 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 This will definitely put people off coming forward with arms. I can't see how it's going to stop someone who only has one arm coming to the Police, most stations have some form of disabled access these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra steveo Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 this is terrible this like , they want to be thinking them selves lucky he didnt turn up at the cop shop and do his own version of the "no russian" level on the new modern warfare 2 lol only ps3 and xbox gamers will know what i am on about oh hang on its youtube link time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Could he have avoided being in possession? Yes, easily. He's not some blushing virgin who's never had any dealings with the police. The guy is a convicted violent criminal who is not unknown to carry a weapon. Depite this, when he 'found' a sawn-off shotgun did he decide to not touch it with a bargepole and to just call 999? No. Instead, he took it home. He then kept it for a few days before eventually deciding to give it to a cop he knows. He didn't invite the cop to his house, he arranged to meet him elsewhere and took the sawn-off out in public again. Is there some reason the guy likes walking around tooled up? Having already been done for it once, he doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to avoid it again. If nothing else, the guy is a complete spanner. At best he got himself nicked through his naivety. How do you know he is a violent criminal? He got done for affray, I've known people charged with this and they are certainly not 'violent criminals'. Perhaps being an ex soldier he didn't look at the gun something you only have to look at and it kills someone but as a tool and in his naivety (or stupidity) though it would be safer if he took it than left it. He said he had issues with the police so he went to someone he trusted, perhaps that took a few days to sort. We'll never know the full facts, we can only comment on what we read but personnaly I think its crazy how he has been treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra steveo Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 think what the police need to do is have a amnesty bin, pretty sure every camp in the British Army has one, where people can just walk by and drop stuff off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 How do you know he is a violent criminal? He got done for affray, I've known people charged with this and they are certainly not 'violent criminals'. Is affray not a criminal offence then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronttuk Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 When i had my firearms certificates taken away the police came and took all my guns they left 700 rounds of live ammo and 2300 shotgun cartridges i phoned the police stn to tell them they had left them behind they said ohh ok bring them to police stn , yeah ok i said what without a licience now i dont think so you can send someone round to collect them, it took them 3 days !! It was read out in court that i held the ammunition from them so i got another sentence, the thing is the arresting copper was the same piece of filth i stopped getting a kicking down the seafront a few months earlier and was a witness for him !! then he and his scum mates have the front to stick together and lie to the courts against me, they damaged my guns i cant claim off them they lied and stitch me up i hate the f***kers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Is affray not a criminal offence then? What has that got to do with it? You said 'convicted violent criminal' that is a label not a legal description. Yes, he has a criminal record, on which affray could have just been a fine, could have been custodial. You don't know the full facts and you are labelling him. I don't question he has a criminal record, I question whether we should label him a 'violent criminal'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Is affray not a criminal offence then? Lad at work knows 2 kids just got locked up for affray...................they were pointing a steam cleaning lance out the window of a car and doing backfires!!!! Are they violent criminals or just doing something that most of us old enough to have had a carburetor car or a bike (jake) will have done, are they criminals???? no of course not, is that affray I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave17 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Lad at work knows 2 kids just got locked up for affray...................they were pointing a steam cleaning lance out the window of a car and doing backfires!!!! Are they violent criminals or just doing something that most of us old enough to have had a carburetor car or a bike (jake) will have done, are they criminals???? no of course not, is that affray I think not. It is if they are causing member of the public to fear for their safety. And a member of public need not be present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 What has that got to do with it? You said 'convicted violent criminal' that is a label not a legal description. Affray is a crime of violence. People who commit crimes are criminals. The guy has a conviction for affray. Therefore he is a convicted violent criminal. Yes, he has a criminal record, on which affray could have just been a fine, could have been custodial. You don't know the full facts and you are labelling him. Surely if somebody has a criminal conviction it's fair to describe them as a criminal. It doesn't hinge upon whether they have received a custodial sentence. I don't question he has a criminal record, I question whether we should label him a 'violent criminal'.It seems to be an accurate label to me. Lad at work knows 2 kids just got locked up for affray...................they were pointing a steam cleaning lance out the window of a car and doing backfires!!!! Are they violent criminals or just doing something that most of us old enough to have had a carburetor car or a bike (jake) will have done, are they criminals???? no of course not, is that affray I think not. It doesn't sound like affray to me because it doesn't involve violence, from your description anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Police have an arrest target figure. So if you walk in at the wrong time you'll get done to boost figures. The affray conviction evidence isn't legal afaikn because it's in the past and people change with age. You can't label him on past convictions. Obviously the police have the records, even after the legal time limit for such records being kept is up. Everything gets stored at Grenadier House. Make of it what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave17 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Police have an arrest target figure. So if you walk in at the wrong time you'll get done to boost figures. The first part is correct, there are targets to be met, the second part of your statement is complete trash though. You don't think to yourself "well, it's a minor offence for which i could use my discretion, but since i'm down on arrests this month i'm going to arrest him" Doesn't work like that in reality. You get arrested if you need to be arrested, it's not worth the amount of time and work to arrest people for no reason when a warning is all that is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Police have an arrest target figure. So if you walk in at the wrong time you'll get done to boost figures. The first part is correct, there are targets to be met, the second part of your statement is complete trash though. You don't think to yourself "well, it's a minor offence for which i could use my discretion, but since i'm down on arrests this month i'm going to arrest him" Doesn't work like that in reality. You get arrested if you need to be arrested, it's not worth the amount of time and work to arrest people for no reason when a warning is all that is required. I have it on good authority that that is completely wrong. However, I have no proof of that and I will never have any statement that that is true so I guess you can call yourself correct in that statement. If I said I was going to shoot you in the face and then decided not to, only to turn around and do so.... that would be the same situation though.. Regardless... this is all a facade so there is no point to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 funny how many times they "Appeal for the help of the public" and then a case like this comes up. often wondered why they don't get the support they need. they should have taken it off him and said thanks goodbye. (another one off the street) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Jake, have you ever been stopped and given points and a fine as that makes you a criminal if you have. Labelling him a violent criminal is over the top. Yeah he has affray on his record , I also have affray on my record am i going to be labelled the same. Members who have met me will tell you straight that i am not. I was just sticking up for a friend who was getting a kicking and got caught doing so. Im sure you would jump in if your friend was having his head stamped on. Just because I helped him that was seen as two against one and labelled as affray. Are you simply carrying on as an attempt to wind people up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Jake, have you ever been stopped and given points and a fine Yes as that makes you a criminal if you have. No it doesn't. As I understand it, motoring convictions are not generally crimes. Labelling him a violent criminal is over the top. Yeah he has affray on his record , I also have affray on my record am i going to be labelled the same. Yes. Members who have met me will tell you straight that i am not. I was just sticking up for a friend who was getting a kicking and got caught doing so. Im sure you would jump in if your friend was having his head stamped on. Just because I helped him that was seen as two against one and labelled as affray. Regardless of whether you like it or not affray is a crime of violence. If somebody has a conviction for affray they are a convicted violent criminal. I really can't understand why there is any debate about this. Are you simply carrying on as an attempt to wind people up ? As long as you carry on being wrong I'll carry on telling you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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