Chris Wilson Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I think people with fairly big single turbos are ultra conservative with cam duration. I'd certainly go 264 degrees inlet and exhaust and consider 272 degrees in both if it's mainly a track day car. I run 280 degree cams in my RB26 on bigger "stock type" twin turbos. Mapped properly 272's should be fine. It's not a lot of duration. Manufacturers are VERY conservative about duration because of emissions and fuel economy. I am normally running engines with well over 300 degrees duration cams, albeit N/A with a lot of static compression What CR is your engine running Rinus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) I think people with fairly big single turbos are ultra conservative with cam duration. I'd certainly go 264 degrees inlet and exhaust and consider 272 degrees in both if it's mainly a track day car. I run 280 degree cams in my RB26 on bigger "stock type" twin turbos. Mapped properly 272's should be fine. It's not a lot of duration. Manufacturers are VERY conservative about duration because of emissions and fuel economy. I am normally running engines with well over 300 degrees duration cams, albeit N/A with a lot of static compression What CR is your engine running Rinus? Is there any point in running high lift cams if you can make the power you want on a lower degree cam? from what ive seen the lower the degree the faster the spool time. On a race car where you are staying in the high revs i can understand but on a road car? Edited December 14, 2009 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Depending on the power band required and the back pressure form the turbine(s) gives a basic guide as to what cam duration you can run. Valve lift is mainly cam lobe shape, valve spring quality and acceptable life, acceptable cam wear, and acceptable noise related. That's why I said for track days 272's might be a better bet. Not many cam makers offer a lot of lift for basically street car engines, as beyond a certain level you need a lot of head work to accept bigger diameter lifters and to avoid the cams hitting the head casting. You often need smaller base circle cams and modified lifters with longer stems within. Not a big market given the hassle, but very common on highly modded road car engines wound up to the nth degree for a specific race purpose. Even with 280 degree cams with a piddling 10.8 mm lift I had to machine the RB26 Skyline head. "Proper" lift is 13 mm plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 CR? How much comression the car is running now? powerband; Like to have a streetcar with 550hp to max 600hp at the flywheel... 2 trackdays a year and 4/5 times seeing the dragstrip and for the rest of the time just having normal fun on the street The turbo kit isn't mounted jet!!, the twinns are getting off this weekend, so I'm getting some important info about cams/ecu/injectors, will need this at some point! I think the spool-up will be good with the castmanifold and the little bit smaller turbo gt4082jb instead of the t67, witch was first delivered with the kit... Like to win a little bit end power with different cams in the future, first will try it on the stock-ones (I've got a wife so I'm on a budget ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Compression ratio = CR If it's mainly for the street I'd stick with 256 or 264 cams, both should be fine. Given the much reduced back pressure of the small single you can easily run more duration than stock, indeed you really should do, it'll waken the top end up a lot. Wes on here has a similar set up, when I persuaded him to put some cams in it it really came alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ok, will get 256 or 264 in the future for sure... Maybe at the same time when buying the ecu and injectors, otherwise is has to be mapped for the second time. I've got 2 other questions; I'm a bit uncertain of the wastegate size in the turbonetics manifold, it's 38mm and also got a mines wastegate 38mm... Any idea of how much power this 38mm gate is limited? And got a question about the fuelling; like to remove the fuel pulsationdemper cause I read this becomes a restriction at +/-550hp... and is it better to ad a fuel pressure regulator or is this only to max out your injectors when they are a bit small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ok, will get 256 or 264 in the future for sure... Maybe at the same time when buying the ecu and injectors, otherwise is has to be mapped for the second time. I've got 2 other questions; I'm a bit uncertain of the wastegate size in the turbonetics manifold, it's 38mm and also got a mines wastegate 38mm... Any idea of how much power this 38mm gate is limited? And got a question about the fuelling; like to remove the fuel pulsationdemper cause I read this becomes a restriction at +/-550hp... and is it better to ad a fuel pressure regulator or is this only to max out your injectors when they are a bit small? The fuel presure regulator is recommended but not required. I dont currently have one on my car but I am using the stock fuel rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 When its recommended I will put it on the car, using also stock rail... I've seen an adaptor witch will fit on stock rail for FPR link; http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=8508&category_id=2001&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would leave the rail stock, and the FPR, they should cope fine. HKS sell a rail for the RB26 Skyline engine that has a smaller bore than the stock steel rail. Be careful that you don't buy stuff you don't need! I wouldn't bother removing the damper, either, myself. I'd run a single Bosch 044 pump, in tank. Wastegate is a bit small, but should be OK. You'll find out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Just out of intrest Chris at what level would you need to up the Fuel Presure or require a FPR to maintain the fuel presure?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Injectors usually have a manufacturers recommended max operating pressure and dwell time. Whilst you are perfectly safe running at or on the max pressure going over it can lead to sticking injectors and variations in flow. Armed with the recommended safe max pressure, a pressure gauge, and a means of measuring dwell time on the dyno you can soon work out if you can fit an adjustable pressure reg and up the static pressure to help flow, or if you simply need bigger, or dual injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 for example I think the Seimens are known to stick. That is news to me. Would you please post a link to the evidence for much a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks guys for the help, learned some interesting things... Now its time to get in the garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 As Chris mentioned, I saw a healthy 50-60hp gain with just switching to HKS264/264 cams, no other mods between the dyno, should be info on here somewhere if you search. It did shift the power curve over to the right a little which you could argue makes the car a little more driveable as its not so aggressive. If you can, go for JUN cams as you get more lift for the duration. For fueling I currently run 650cc PE drop in injectors, stock rail, stock FPR, fuel dampner, stock fuel filter and a single Bosch 044 in tank, this all seems happy and my last dyno was 592hp My new fuel setup is Bosch 1000cc high imp injectors, new rail to fit the injectors and a bosch motorsport FPR, I am upgrading as I want to try running E85 which requires more fueling, plus it leaves some head room if I decide to strap a larger turbo on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thanks Wez for the info... Have read a few days ago quickly through your topic of your car, for technical info Will take the time for it one of these days, like to read if you ran into any troubles and what turbo you have on right now and what wastegate size your cast-m has.. Good to hear that you run this powerlevel with this fueling setup, is it piggy-bagged? or stand-alone? Jamie P. advised me to run 650cc on piggy and 800cc on standalone ecu, guess that piggy has more problems with bigger injectors... And for the same amount of money 800cc dropins are available, so if I want to go more extreme with the engine I don't have to buy new injectors... Only problem for me is, got the money for injectors but no money for good ecu (witch I prefere) and then buy the 800cc's...(witch isn't very nice with EMB, if I'm correct:rolleyes:) And I can borrow an Emange-blue (from a friend) and buy the 650cc's... Think I go for the 650cc as you are running veryvery nice 592hp , cause I don't want to blow the engine, and then buy later a good ecu and the 264cams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 My STRONG advice is wait and fit a good and correct package in one go, and have enough money aside to pay a good mapper. Trust me, Wez has a brilliant set up, and it makes an awesome road car, although he's diverging toward it being a pure track car nowadays. I drove it on a well set up AEM plug and play ecu amd the car was superb, it's supposed to better yet on its current Solaris ecu. If you leave anything for now leave the cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 So mount the kit, have to weld the downpipe to the exhaust and connect the turbo to the fmic and make screamer-pipe, this will take some time... Drive it on very low boost in the mean time, (or don't drive it at all, witch isn't very easy:sly:) and get the money sorted for the right ecu and 800cc's and maybe cams...and ofcourse good mapper, I know mapper will be very important... I'm not sure if there are people in Holland who are as experienced as some mappers in uk... Really thinking of getting mapped in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If you get it mapped in the UK then Ryan G is your man. I agree with Chris though dont bother with the cams for now, just get yourself a decent standalone ECU and 800cc injectors. If you do it cheap you will end up doing it again. Keep an eye out on the forum for sale section as ECU's come up for sale occationally. Im considering selling my AEM for a solaris in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinus Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok, then I will also go for the cams/ecu/800cc's at once, or else I have to map it twice when I switch cams.. Adjustable cam pulleys are a must? Or you don't need them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Solaris has some great features, i do like the fact it wont let me have any boost till the oil is up to temp, stops me getting carried away. Adjustable cam pulleys are a must? Or you don't need them? You dont need them, stock ones on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Honestly if your looking for about 500-550 bhp dont bother with the cams and you would not require adjustable cam pulleys either for that sort of power level. If you get the cams at a later date the map will just need adjusting it will not be a full remap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Solaris has some great features, i do like the fact it wont let me have any boost till the oil is up to temp, stops me getting carried away. Really, So that means the solaris can see the oil temps, How does it do that as the AEM cant see them to my knowledge as im looking at what sensors I will need fot my Racepak dash at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Really, So that means the solaris can see the oil temps, How does it do that as the AEM cant see them to my knowledge as im looking at what sensors I will need fot my Racepak dash at the minute. I think it reads it from my dash2 but i presume the oil temp sender could be wired to the solaris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think it reads it from my dash2 but i presume the oil temp sender could be wired to the solaris. Ah ok but you do need a seperate sensor. Thats what I was thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ah ok but you do need a seperate sensor. Thats what I was thinking Yup, i have AFR, EGT, Oil press, Oil temp senders wired into the dash2 that is connected to the solaris. Changing to a Syvecs ecu on the 1st jan:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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