Ian C Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I would have expected the MAP2 to be able to cope as well, from what I remember it's on a similar level to the EMU. Odd. How big are the injectors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 i only have uk 550 injectors.i know there are cars running much bigger and big hp with the ecu,bit confused at the moment.Im not technicaly minded on the ecu side of things so have to go with what the mapper is telling me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 i only have uk 550 injectors.i know there are cars running much bigger and big hp with the ecu,bit confused at the moment.Im not technicaly minded on the ecu side of things so have to go with what the mapper is telling me. Uk 550's with the resistor Pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Uk 550's with the resistor Pack? yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 yep I came across a NA-T with a similar issue. Turned out, after a little investigation, not all of the black and orange 12v feeds hooked into the resistor pack were injector power supplies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 I came across a NA-T with a similar issue. Turned out, after a little investigation, not all of the black and orange 12v feeds hooked into the resistor pack were injector power supplies not an issue as my loom was exposed and i could see which wires went where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Just seen the you tube clip. That charger sounds knackered,it may explain the lower boost partially - where did you get it from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 (edited) Just seen the you tube clip. That charger sounds knackered,it may explain the lower boost partially - where did you get it from? came off a jag only done 50,000 miles.ive redone the coupler and has fresh oil,it spun freely no clunking ect.with all the pipe work off all you here then is the noise from the charger itsself.will check to see if i videod it without the pipe work connected so you can here the difference. the groaning noise is from the power steering pump.notice the charger has not outlet connected to it. Edited July 14, 2010 by barneybrendan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wile e coyote Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Hi mate has afr found out how to map your ecu yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Hi mate has afr found out how to map your ecu yet ? matt has pm'd the map ecu guy and got a lengthy reply.when he hhas time to read through it the car is going back on the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasoup Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Is there anymore news on the mapping? The anticipation is killing me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Is there anymore news on the mapping? The anticipation is killing me! no not yet will have to give them a call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Are they still having trouble with the map ecu or is it a case that they dont have time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 Are they still having trouble with the map ecu or is it a case that they dont have time? i dont know as i havnt spoken to them again.last i heard matt had e lengthy reply back from the map ecu guy,and said when he has time he will read through it and get the car back on the dyno.bit of a bummer as i know there are supras using the map 2 with larger injectors and big hp on the map ecu 2 tech forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Maybe worth someone having a word with tDR, he knows the MAP 2 ECU's rather well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 will ring matt in the morning to see how hes getting on with it.If theres still problems then im sure he be open to advice specific to the problems arissing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Maybe worth someone having a word with tDR, he knows the MAP 2 ECU's rather well. The difficulty lies with 2 things when it comes to the NA: 1. Wiring - who knows how that goes, only know how the TT wiring goes myself and suspect the MAP-ECU community don't see much of the 2JZ-GE as an application. 2. You need to get off the stock airflow metering system (it's not designed to see boost on an NA) and onto the MAP sensor inside the MAP-ECU2 to be able to fuel properly for boost conditions. The big hurdle here will be getting the base values to load into the MAP-ECU2 for what the stock metering sensor does voltage wise for a given pressure / vacuum - that way it can mimic the stock signals for closed loop conditions or you can scale those values back (simple ratio division) to suit your larger injectors for closed loop. For open loop IE under boost you can suitably amend the voltage values to fuel appropriately for boost whilst fooling the stock ECU that there is no boost. The timing side of things should be relatively straight forward assuming things are wired up and configured correctly for the 2JZ-GE - given the linear boost characteristics of supercharger boost, my thinking is wind back the timing across the board as the stock settings will be too advanced for boost. The stock knock feedback will be doing it's thing though on the stock ECU side of things which helps so might not be too much adjustment needed over what that does with the timing naturally. Not entirely sure on the fuelling side of it with a charger, other than you make boost very early on so more fuel needed - which in turn should be helped by the larger injectors pulsing more fuel in for a given voltage (0-5V) signal, though this will need fudged pretty much as soon as the boost comes in because the stock ECU will be trying to open the taps 100%. Matt knows what he's up to - it's just the learning an ECU side of it if he hasn't worked with a MAP-ECU2 previously. Tends to be best to go with a mapper's favoured ECU as they'll have spent the most time working with it... Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) that helps me to understand a bit more they have a wirring diagram for the na. i already had the map 2 and spending £1500 on an f con isnt possible at the moment,plus needed to know if the charger set up makes decent performance to warrant spending a big chunk of money.Toyota Supra JZA80 2JZ-GE JDM.pdf Edited July 20, 2010 by barneybrendan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 that helps me to understand a bit more they have a wirring diagram for the na. i already had the map 2 and spending £1500 on an f con isnt possible at the moment,plus needed to know if the charger set up makes decent performance to warrant spending a big chunk of money. Wiring looks pretty straightforward - pin 62 is key as that's how you're going to adjust fuelling by fudging that airflow signal to the stock ECU to allow for the larger injectors and boost. There should be enough headroom, more so with larger injectors as that lets you output lower voltage values to the stock ECU for more fuel to then scale up with boost. As I said you need the stock MAP sensor voltage vs pressure / vacuum output values before switching to the MAP ECU2 MAP sensor as depicted by the snip on the diagram as that's your baseline to start the fudging from. Timing is a simple looking affair on the wiring side with just pin 57 being routed through the MAP-ECU2 for signal modification or pass through because of the distributor setup. I see no reason why the MAP-ECU2 can't do the job - just realise I went through a learning curve myself with it and these things take time to figure out before getting results. The MAP-ECU2 is quite complex on the additional features side of things - there's a host of stuff it can do other than fuelling and timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I've had a technical response back from MAP, just trying to get it back on the dyno as we are extremely busy. No doubt the results will be posted up Done a couple of MAP ecus before, seemed ok. But they were on a TT in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneybrendan Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 I've had a technical response back from MAP, just trying to get it back on the dyno as we are extremely busy. No doubt the results will be posted up Done a couple of MAP ecus before, seemed ok. But they were on a TT in the first place. :) my fingers are crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Just been on the dyno again, and have to admit to not being a MAP ecu expert ! Rescaled the MAF 0 RPM 0 so that the ecu is seeing a higher voltage for 0kpa. Seemed to help a little but the basic problem is that at about 8-9psi of boost approaching 3200rpms, you just can't get enough fuel in, it's too lean even at maximum voltage and 40psi static fuel pressure. Then at 3200rpms it goes seriously rich, it shifts from 13:1 to 9:1, it's literally like a cliff drop ! The stock ecu is doing something to cause this, don't think it's going from closed loop to open loop on the o2 sensor as usually, and I could be wrong, once you are at 100% throttle the ecu goes open loop. You just can't map around this sudden shift in output fueling from the ecu. Open to suggestions ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Just been on the dyno again, and have to admit to not being a MAP ecu expert ! Rescaled the MAF 0 RPM 0 so that the ecu is seeing a higher voltage for 0kpa. Seemed to help a little but the basic problem is that at about 8-9psi of boost approaching 3200rpms, you just can't get enough fuel in, it's too lean even at maximum voltage and 40psi static fuel pressure. Then at 3200rpms it goes seriously rich, it shifts from 13:1 to 9:1, it's literally like a cliff drop ! The stock ecu is doing something to cause this, don't think it's going from closed loop to open loop on the o2 sensor as usually, and I could be wrong, once you are at 100% throttle the ecu goes open loop. You just can't map around this sudden shift in output fueling from the ecu. Open to suggestions ??? Had the same problem with e-manage on an NA-T. It's to do with the ACIS butterfly opening. Nothing you can do really as the factory ecu is playing games in the background much like the TT one does at 3900rpm due to the second turbo transition. You just have to keep playing until you find a happy medium. The e-manage has the ability to over drive the injectors behind the ECU's back so you have a better level of control, not sure what the map ecu has. A simple stand alone like a Link Atom for £600 with £200 fit and map should be more than plenty to drive this setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hey Nod, it's making too much boost early on unlike an NA-T so it's just too lean before 3200rpms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Hey Nod, it's making too much boost early on unlike an NA-T so it's just too lean before 3200rpms If the output voltage to the ecu from the Map ECU is running much about 4.5+v then your pretty much screwed as there is not enough fuel in the underlying oem base map. I've never been a fan of Gizmo's that condition the ecu signals to force it into miss mapping Edited July 21, 2010 by Nodalmighty (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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