arnout Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The guys off to map a VVTI next week in europe , dont know if they have the fly by wire working though The VVTi is not in the car yet, so we'll not be mapping it next week. Got another car we're going to map. Fly by wire is crap, we ditched that. Also, the UK is Europe also guys! hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRoy Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Do your self a favour James , DO NOT go for a ride in terrys unless you have a few grand spare !!!!! Dude Yep! Ive been in Tel's, mine feels like a smart car now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob wild Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Just as a matter of interest how much are you talking for a AEM set up? And is there any where in the northwest that could do it? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The VVTi is not in the car yet, so we'll not be mapping it next week. Got another car we're going to map. Fly by wire is crap, we ditched that. Also, the UK is Europe also guys! hahahaha. Sorry Arnout, disagree about the FBW, it has some great functions including engine protection, but I do understand it is hard to set up with 99% of ECU's. LOL about Europe, some here are a little insular Dude, I couldnt fault the way the guy had the car running, I was/am very impressed. Tony, the info is not for me to share really, its the guy's livelyhood, but I am sure Dude will put you in touch as by the sounds he could be a regular over here if there is a demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnout Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Tony, the info is not for me to share really, its the guy's livelyhood, but I am sure Dude will put you in touch as by the sounds he could be a regular over here if there is a demand. This top secret mr X tuner guy is one of my supra friends and we will go next week to the states to get the new course of AEM programming (for the custom boxes). We'll be doing most of the AEM tuning together in Europe as we're officially appointed by the European AEM importer (yes people, there is an official AEM importer in Europe). oh, btw, about people flying in to tune your car. I personally have great experience with Sean McElderry of Torquefreaks. He has to come from the states but he's in europe like one week every month (at least). Good guy also. hey and Terry. Drive by wire sucks big ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pwpanas Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 To a BPU car it can do anything any other fuelling/timing computer do, plus a bunch of other things that only stand alone ecu's can do such as increase rev limits...Agreed, with two small exceptions imo/fwiw: It doesn't shift oem auto trannys quite as well as the oem ecu. Don't get me wrong, an AEM can shift an oem or upgraded-oem auto tranny, but the oem ecu is noticeably better at (for example) adapting shift lead-in points & pressures over time (as the tranny wears) than the AEM. Fwiw, some auto Supra owners find it shifts fine, and others have had severe problems trying to get it to work properly (especially with more horsepower and an upgraded oem tranny). Obviously this wouldn't be an issue either way for a manually-shifted TH400. I'm honestly not sure if I would recommend *any* standalone ecu for a bpu mkiv Supra (or even a small single turbo). I'm just not sure the cost/benefit is there (especially when you add in the cost of tuning/tweaking). Typically a downloaded-off-the-internet 'map' will get your Supra 80%-95% of the results you're looking for, but flying experts 'over the pond' to get that last 5%-20% can get rather pricey. Alternatively you might spend (literally) months of learning to build up the expertise to do the 'tweaking' yourself. The AEM is a powerful, feature-rich ecu, but those features do come at the expense of simplicity. All that said, I'm running an AEM in my (6spd) Supra, and (again) I agree with the other information that has been posted here (assuming the AEM has been upgraded to the latest software version). ...is AEM the best way to get 8000 rpm reb limit (along with all the other benefits?)Imo, the quickest and easiest way to get an upgraded rev limit is to go with an oem ecu upgrade (eg. gForce or Technosquare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 hey and Terry. Drive by wire sucks big ass LOL yeah yeah, have a chat with your crazy mate, and ask just how bad it sucks on my car with a baby turbo;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 ...Typically a downloaded-off-the-internet 'map' will get your Supra 80%-95% of the results you're looking for... Is this the general consensus mate, or is the percentage a lot less in reality? The UK and US spec are not that different, so if the US map were to be as good as 80-95% then on a standard UK car it wouldn't be far off. Alternatively the car may run like crap with this map v1.03 (or whatever) and the understanding is that "hey, you've just bought a fully programmable system and this is only a base map, meant to make it idle, so you don't have to put it on a flatbed to take it to the authorised dealer/mapper who knows how to enable/unlock features and make it work properly" I have an extensive article from "turbo and high performance" a few months back proclaiming this to be a truly plug'n'play solution, you just unplug your stock supra ECU, plug the AEM with their map and off you go, everything honky-dory (apart from the odd optimisation here and there) I just wonder if there is an 'artistic licence' in the definition of plug'n'play in this occassion. Technically speaking, it could just mean that you don't have to rewire your main loom and the existing sensors are retained (which is true to an extent) Reading the 'supra' part of the AEM forum leaves me with more questions than answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 nice one on getting it set up. got to the guys who can tune the car. HPF aem demo video looks great how they got car driving like stock. SUPRA VIDEO http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/videos/HorsepowerFreaksAEMDemo.wmv VIPER VIDEO http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/videos/aemviperondyno.wmv GETTING STARTED DOC http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/TechArticles/AEM/AEM%20Install%20FAQ.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Nice one Mark --- shame though that the links in the 'getting started' doc don't work. This Blkmgk guy is a regular poster in the AEM forum, and he's a punter I think, not a qualified dealer or anything...so he's still trying to learn from his own (and other people's) mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 You've pretty much hit the nail on the head john. The problem is that the differences between the US and Jap spec ARE big when it comes to mapping (as most cars in the UK now seem to be J-spec) and the problem is that unless I'm very much mistaken you'll not find one J-spec basemap on the AEM site, especially for a stock car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I haven't got a JSpec mate, so that discrepancy would be the least of my problems. I'm thinking more about the US 'free' maps being worth next to nothing*, either because they assume irrelevant fuel, or because nobody bothered to add aircon support properly, or because autobox settings are all over the place, that sort of thing. * for plug'n'play purposes, not to idle the car and allow it to be driven to the dealer/tuner/mapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I haven't got a JSpec mate, so that discrepancy would be the least of my problems. I'm thinking more about the US 'free' maps being worth next to nothing*, either because they assume irrelevant fuel, or because nobody bothered to add aircon support properly, or because autbox settings are all over the place, that sort of thing. * for plug'n'play purposes, not to idle the car and allow it to be driven to the dealer/tuner/mapper Yes if you wanted to download a map onto the car and drive it around you'd be dissapointed. The basemap's are there to either get you to a tuner, or for you to start tuning from. Plug and play is more a reference to the fact it uses the stock wiring harness. (Although there is an amount of wiring involved to get the car to a state where you can tune it - ie wiring wbo2, MAP sensor, IAT sensor) So it's not as plain sailing as it makes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I think the base maps are a HUGE bonus to tuners, saves them and the punter lots of time and money. It would seem that if the AEM is the real deal now that they have developed the system in public, and by that I mean letting the punter/tuners do the R&D. I dont agree with this, but if they now have a product free from glitches it is a bonus to the Supra community. Dudes car ran fine, and I will be watching his progress with the AEM with huge interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I think the base maps are a HUGE bonus to tuners, saves them and the punter lots of time and money. yes, *wild guess here!* could bring 40 hours down to 4 (IF you know what you're doing, big 'if') ...if they now have a product free from glitches it is a bonus to the Supra community. Not from the publicly available maps it isn't glitch-free. Dudes car ran fine, and I will be watching his progress with the AEM with huge interest. He's not running on a map off the AEM site though, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 yes, *wild guess here!* could bring 40 hours down to 4 (IF you know what you're doing, big 'if') Not from the publicly available maps it isn't glitch-free. He's not running on a map off the AEM site though, is he? But John I would never advocate someone stick a downloaded map in their car and forget about it! That in automotive suicide, and we'll leave that to others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 But John I would never advocate someone stick a downloaded map in their car and forget about it! That in automotive suicide.. Oh, I agree totally... no two engines are 100% the same, even as they come out of the factory brand new you can find differences in compression of 5% for example. My (self) question is whether AEM could have been more eeerrmmm...active in publicising the latest list of relevant maps (and full instructions of how the end-users can optimise them, if they so wish). Or else the plug'n'play claims sound a bit hollow (to me, the whinger and eternally suspicious individual ) My suspicion is that the exchange of the above information is minimal, for various reasons that I wouldn't want to mention in public. You see, if you get a 'generic' EMS like the others, no plug'n'play claims are being made, the understanding is that you jump in the deep and assume responsibility for everything, they're not marketed as foolproof add-ons for the masses, rather the opposite. One of the reasons I bought the supra was the availability of the AEM EMS for it, and now that I'm digging deeper I see a mixed bag, you understand. Not deal-breakers, but still not glasnost either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 heres a big thread on supraforums about AEM http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170942&highlight=aem+mapping would it not be a good thing people with experience in the AEM to share info for the good of the supra owners. maybe start a sticky thread. i just been reading supra forums. so much info and help when you reading up or trying to learn new things. the tuners who fly around the world tuning cars can fine tune it to perfection using it day in day out. its great to see dude got his car set up perfect from a pro tuner. would be great to see a AEM thread for all the things you need to get up and running. and part numbers. also tlicence has put a lot of time into tuning his aem. its good to see supra owners helping each other out as thats what the club all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 That's a good thread Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Agreed, with two small exceptions imo/fwiw: It doesn't shift oem auto trannys quite as well as the oem ecu. Don't get me wrong, an AEM can shift an oem or upgraded-oem auto tranny, but the oem ecu is noticeably better at (for example) adapting shift lead-in points & pressures over time (as the tranny wears) than the AEM. Fwiw, some auto Supra owners find it shifts fine, and others have had severe problems trying to get it to work properly (especially with more horsepower and an upgraded oem tranny). Obviously this wouldn't be an issue either way for a manually-shifted TH400. I'm honestly not sure if I would recommend *any* standalone ecu for a bpu mkiv Supra (or even a small single turbo). I'm just not sure the cost/benefit is there (especially when you add in the cost of tuning/tweaking). Typically a downloaded-off-the-internet 'map' will get your Supra 80%-95% of the results you're looking for, but flying experts 'over the pond' to get that last 5%-20% can get rather pricey. Alternatively you might spend (literally) months of learning to build up the expertise to do the 'tweaking' yourself. The AEM is a powerful, feature-rich ecu, but those features do come at the expense of simplicity. All that said, I'm running an AEM in my (6spd) Supra, and (again) I agree with the other information that has been posted here (assuming the AEM has been upgraded to the latest software version). Imo, the quickest and easiest way to get an upgraded rev limit is to go with an oem ecu upgrade (eg. gForce or Technosquare). Dont agree with your synopsis of the Box shift at all !!! I have never had my box shift with the OEM ecu wheer i thought it should , now it does , its configured to shift where I want it at very small throttle openings , where I want it to at part throttle and hits the mark at WOT every time , before i used it manually now i can leave it in drive , once the AEM has been tuned tweaks will be done at a very low price whenever the tuner is in the UK which looks like it may be quite often Dude :littled: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The autobox is electronically controlled dudes, so it will shift in whichever way the ECU tells it to shift. That's not the issue, nor is it whether AEM can potentially do this or that (which I'm sure it can) My issue is that it doesn't do any of this properly 'out of the box', using the latest maps from their (not so useful) forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The autobox is electronically controlled dudes, so it will shift in whichever way the ECU tells it to shift. That's not the issue, nor is it whether AEM can potentially do this or that (which I'm sure it can) My issue is that it doesn't do any of this properly 'out of the box', using the latest maps from their (not so useful) forum. As I mentioned before John, PNP refers to the wiring NOT the mapping. NO ecu will do what your asking it to do, because each engine is slightly different. If what your looking for is a map that will get you going then there are maps available on the AEM forum (that should work with your UK spec). If you're looking for a map that you can run at 18psi then you're going to have to develop your own, although there are probably some maps that can get you pretty darn close. (ie just a case of tweaking fuelling and ignition to make sure afr's and egt's are good.) I've found the reason why people are a bit cagey about handing out maps and saying "this will do what you want" is that everybody's engine's are slightly different and you will tend to get the numpty that will run the car at high boost with the thing detting away for extended amounts of time and damage the engine, then come back and say "you gave me a dodgy map". When the case is that they don't understand that each map needs to be tweaked for a particular car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 As I mentioned before John, PNP refers to the wiring NOT the mapping. apparently yes, and that promise is true to some extent (you still have to drop the air mass sensor, swap the map sensor, fit the IAT sensor and change the ignition to wasted spark. You really need to change the oxygen sensor to WB too) I've found the reason why people are a bit cagey about handing out maps and saying "this will do what you want" is that everybody's engine's are slightly different and you will tend to get the numpty that will run the car at high boost with the thing detting away for extended amounts of time and damage the engine, then come back and say "you gave me a dodgy map". That might be the case of course, but it could also be a bit more than that Are the forum maps 90-95% spot on? That's the impression I had before delving deeper, and now I suspect that the percentage figure is a bit lower. More like software version 0.4, late alpha, if you know what I mean. (I've got no problem with that, I can factor it in the final price, as long as it is clear that I am on a pre-beta and treat it as such.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 John, to be honest you seem fairly clued up with most things, so I shouldn't think it would be much of a problem for you. I would say as long as you follow the instructions very carefully, you should be OK. I would also suggest that even if you do download a basemap, I would still go through it and make sure that you know what it is that you've got. Understanding what it is your doing at each step and why it is your doing it is important, so that if you come accross a problem then you're much better equiped to solve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 My fear is that I may encounter 'hidden' or 'obscure' ways to access certain supra-specific functions, perhaps left as a way for the dealers to have an edge, make money after the sale, you know what I mean, don't you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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