rant slap in the face for the British!

[Paul]

you say that the Eastern Europeans are seen as more reliable

 

Surely this is a bit of a blanket statement? There must be good and crap as with the british workforce yet it seems acceptable to praise up an entire section of the worlds workers and slam the work ethic of the entire British population at the same time ??

 

Can't get my head around this leftie lark

[gaz1]

Interesting post. When you say that the Eastern Europeans are seen as more reliable, reliable in what way? Do you mean they are more reliable at showing up. or the standard of their work or what? Just curious.

 

More reliable as in turning up especially Monday mornings, eastern European steel fixers i rate the best, British carpenters i rate the best.

The construction industry is one of the hardest jobs around, long hours, hard physical work, but also one of the best paying industries around,

which leads to a lot of guys blowing out at weekends and not turning up Mondays:rolleyes:

I have noticed though most of the British guys will take breakfast and dinner from the canteen at work (paying for it obviously) but very rare to see eastern Europeans eat there, as they always bring there own food, i asked a few of them if they thought our food was crap there response was " no mate, we save every penny we can and send it home" now thats not helping our economy either:rolleyes:

[gaz1]

Surely this is a bit of a blanket statement? There must be good and crap as with the british workforce yet it seems acceptable to praise up an entire section of the worlds workers and slam the work ethic of the entire British population at the same time ??

 

Can't get my head around this leftie lark

 

I say what i see, but understand your comment but a lot of the migrant workers are just here for the money so they would never have time off, if you worked in another country would you take days off

[RedM]

" no mate, we save every penny we can and send it home" now thats not helping our economy either:rolleyes:

 

I expect that they're buying their food from shops in this country, therefore helping the economy unless the website http://www.polishsandwiches4U.com/delivery is up and running.

[benkei]

With the greatest respect to Benkei, who contributes some good ideas on here, this particular post of his - in my opinion - contains a whole series of dodgy claims. Is it true that people don't speak to their neighbours? Depends where you are. Some of my friends live in very neighbourly communities. Is it true that pubs are closing because of the smoking ban, or could there be other reasons? Is it true that people are socialising less? I went out today and didn't feel in the least bit oppressed by 'made up' laws. And what's a 'made up' law anyway?

 

 

My gran, before she passed away earlier this year, always used to tell me about when she was younger, and how she knew everyone in her street. They'd socialise on a much higher level than we do now. My street is quiet neighbourly, I know many of the people in my street, but not all of them, so I see this as a decline in neighbourly socialisation. Not every area will be the same, obviously there will be areas where it is higher, and areas where it is lower.

As for the pubs, since the smoking ban, you are no longer allowed to smoke in these places, so the smokers stay at home instead. Not all of them, but many of them. Alcohol is cheaper to buy from the off-licence too, so they are saving money and not having to stand outside to smoke. So pubs are losing a LOT of their custom, and having to close up. This is how I see it, this seems to make sense to me. Unless I'm wrong and there's something I'm missing?

As for 'made up' laws, I'm refering to the laws put in place, not for our safety or for the imporvement of our lives, but purely to generate money. Laws which if broken result in a fine, like dropping litter for example. If caught dropping litter, you should be made ot go back and pick it up. This would be embarrasing and a lesson would be learnt. You wouldn't want to drop litter again, as everyone would be watching you have to go back and pick it up! And no one likes litterers, it makes our streets look messy. But instead, the law thinks that taking your money will make the situation right... but the litter you dropped is still on the floor.

 

The '90% of people' statement was only representative of a post that was - again, in my opinion - such a gloomy portrait of life in the UK that I wanted to challenge it.

 

I don't disagree, It IS gloomy. My figure may have been a little out. I'd say more around 60-70%. The pubs I visit now, are a lot less busy than they were when I used to go regularly around 6 years ago. I don't go as much becase I don't drink anymore, not because of money or smoking, but because of a lifestyle choice, and I don't like the taste. But I can definately see why pubs are struggling to stay open.

[Paul]

I say what i see, but understand your comment but a lot of the migrant workers are just here for the money so they would never have time off, if you worked in another country would you take days off

 

Exactly, there's a difference in working for a year or two for many times the money you are used to compared to someone who is working for what is considered an average salary and a lifetime of doing it.

It's all down to different motivations with the two rather than the general work ethic.

[Konrad]

I have noticed though most of the British guys will take breakfast and dinner from the canteen at work (paying for it obviously) but very rare to see eastern Europeans eat there, as they always bring there own food, i asked a few of them if they thought our food was crap there response was " no mate, we save every penny we can and send it home" now thats not helping our economy either:rolleyes:

 

I think they was lying about canteen food not tasting crap

Anyway Gaz, you need to remember that those guys pay taxes, rent houses, pay for food, bills, fuel etc. Because they come here to save some money, they do not claim benefits, they do not take sick pay and probably just 0.1% of them will be here to claim from national pension fund when they will retire (and they still pay NI etc.) They are not putting strain on education or healthcare system, those are the guys this economy NEEDS. You need to focus on those who SPONGE money out of state without giving anything back.

Besides there is a lot of work offered around, some people need to change their mentality - if there is a financial crisis here, I do ANY work I can, not sneer just because job is hard and for national minium - tough shit, when times will be better there is always a chance to move on, now it's about surviving.

[marbleapple]

does this go for peoples opinions on the BNP?

 

Would you even know they existed if it wasn't for what you read in papers or on TV?

 

As for Gaz's posts above, I personally think it highlights what I see as the problem with the media and our opinions. We work in a capitalist society where everything is economics. Immigrants work harder and are better at certain things compared to the English and thus employers employ them over the less capable english. We then get the media making issues about how immigrants our taking our jobs, killing innocent kittens and insulting old people, yet fail to mention that the workers are here because we want them here and in many cases do a better job for cheaper. As Abz said, we English need to step up our game.

[Tannhauser]

A lot of points raised here, but just to pick up on a couple:

 

As for the pubs, since the smoking ban, you are no longer allowed to smoke in these places, so the smokers stay at home instead. Not all of them, but many of them. Alcohol is cheaper to buy from the off-licence too, so they are saving money and not having to stand outside to smoke. So pubs are losing a LOT of their custom, and having to close up. This is how I see it, this seems to make sense to me. Unless I'm wrong and there's something I'm missing

 

I agree that the pubs are losing custom overall because of the smoking ban. But the 2004 WHO estimate was 25% of the UK population smoke and not all of those are going to be put off by the smoking ban.

 

So this is going way too far and creating a false picture of a society in which the majority of people can't go the pub anymore:

 

Smoking has been banned, so 90% of the people who socialise with their friends at the local pub can no longer do that

 

Also:

 

As for 'made up' laws, I'm refering to the laws put in place, not for our safety or for the imporvement of our lives, but purely to generate money. Laws which if broken result in a fine, like dropping litter for example. If caught dropping litter, you should be made ot go back and pick it up. This would be embarrasing and a lesson would be learnt. You wouldn't want to drop litter again, as everyone would be watching you have to go back and pick it up! And no one likes litterers, it makes our streets look messy. But instead, the law thinks that taking your money will make the situation right... but the litter you dropped is still on the floor.

 

I think this is a bonkers example to choose .

 

A fine for littering isn't helping preserve the environment? Come on.....

 

For a start, I think it's unlikely that the average policeman is going to give you a fine without also telling you to also stick your litter in the bin, so it's not a choice between the two. I also dispute that, say, a £50 fine is less effective than an 'embarrassing' incident. Even if it is a revenue gathering tax, good, I'm all for it. The money to fund public services has to come from somewhere, so I'm happy to let those litter-dropping bastards fund it.

 

However, I don't believe in the idea of 'laws to raise revenue' full stop, at least in the sense I think you mean (like littering fines). The of revenue it's going to raise is tiny, and the means of collecting it are so inefficient compared to docking it out of your wages. Social engineering, yes, revenue gathering, no.

[mathew]

Would you even know they existed if it wasn't for what you read in papers or on TV?

 

 

yes.

[Abz]

yes.

Would you even know who the dangerous Osama American trained Bin Laden is if it wasn't for the papers or TV? I for sure won't! Anyway what is that old man doing nowadays? Last I heard he was chilling with Bush (not the hairy type either!).

[benkei]

I think this is a bonkers example to choose .

 

Are you calling me bonkers?

Maybe it wasn't the best example, but that was the first one that sprung to mind.

 

For a start, I think it's unlikely that the average policeman is going to give you a fine without also telling you to also stick your litter in the bin, so it's not a choice between the two. I also dispute that, say, a £50 fine is less effective than an 'embarrassing' incident. Even if it is a revenue gathering tax, good, I'm all for it. The money to fund public services has to come from somewhere, so I'm happy to let those litter-dropping bastards fund it.

 

Who says it funds public services? Surely that would make sense, and I'd like to believe it. But I think public services are the least of the Governments worries ATM. After all, Europe needs our money more than us, and these second homes don't pay for themselves, although for politicians they do apparently...

 

However, I don't believe in the idea of 'laws to raise revenue' full stop, at least in the sense I think you mean (like littering fines).

 

How about fines for putting your bins out too early, or on the wrong day? That's rediculous, and a fine is punishment. No one died from a bin being put out, yet you get fined and treated like a criminal for doing so.

Most crimes carry a fine TBH. What's wrong with just being locked up? Why do they need your money too?

 

I'm not trying to pick at things, and I do feel I benefit from these kinds of discussions. I'd hate to have a blinkered or one-sided view, I like to see many sides to a story so I do appreciate your input tannhouser. I don't claim to know all, I take in a lot from what I see around me, but maybe I don't fully understand it all and how it all works. So please don't be under the impression I'm stupid, or uneducated (not that you may do, but I'd hate to give that impression) I'm just trying to learn more about what I haven't been taught.

[DODGYDODDS]

With the greatest respect to Benkei, who contributes some good ideas on here, this particular post of his - in my opinion - contains a whole series of dodgy claims. Is it true that people don't speak to their neighbours? Depends where you are. Some of my friends live in very neighbourly communities.

 

Where i come from bud, no body speaks, take a walk to the local shops and as you pass people, it is head to the floor and straight past, if you do make eye contact and say ''hello'', the looks of shock you get are quite saddening. But may i add, the older generations [60 +] do actually have the time of day, and openess to say hi.

i Dont know where your from, as it says top secret, but it sounds like it differs from my area mate.

 

Is it true that pubs are closing because of the smoking ban, or could there be other reasons?

And the smoking ban is in my opinion having a large affect, but is it by no means the sole factor of the downturn off the industry.

rising rent, rates, fuel, property, taxation, lower disposable income (thanks to higher household bills and mortgages), the trend towards wine drinking, and fierce competition from off-licences, newsagents and supermarkets. Are all working together against the good ol' british pub.

 

Is it true that people are socialising less? I went out today and didn't feel in the least bit oppressed by 'made up' laws. And what's a 'made up' law anyway?

 

That entirely depends on demographic, people socialise less, till pay day at the end of the month:). No law is made up, but there are laws to opress in one way or another

 

The '90% of people' statement was only representative of a post that was - again, in my opinion - such a gloomy portrait of life in the UK that I wanted to challenge it.

 

Was a little out, but come on mate life is getting gloomier in britain, but i suppose life is what you make it. My car keeps me happy, when it's working, that is!

 

You obviously like to believe that in pointing out an obvious mistake, I'm focusing on unimportant details whilst missing the greater truth. Take, for example, any of your tinfoil hat threads. What you don't seem to grasp is that it would be equally possible to rebut any part of your nonsensical arguments. However, as there is enough ordure in a typical post to fertilise the whole of the UK for some time, I'm forced to cherry pick the most obvious nonsense.

Dude, you've done it a couple of times to me, and tbh, the worst was me taking a piece out of an article and pasting it. You seem to have a panchant for anyone, with an ''alternative view''.

Yes i disagree with the climate change opression, And yes i think govt are getting to big, and yes i think there are hidden agendas, but i certainly dont wear a tin foil hat.

 

me disagreeing with climate change wasn't non-sensical. There is lots to go against the ipcc's science. al gore's nonsence film, and the way beraucrats have jumped on the band wagon. Lots of fear mongering

and the other one you disagreed on was moncktons speech, which i tried to clear up, did make the mistake of the hush media granted

 

It's a shame, I think it's good that you have an interest in societal, environmental and political issues. But how about looking beyond far right-wing websites run by guys like the Heartland Institute? I know the 'mainstream media' has a lot to answer for, but at least the broadsheets have to have some basic standards of journalistic accuracy.

 

That made me smile, i dont go on far right websites mate and The heartland institute has nothing to do with my views, never been on it tbh. And i dont watch tv [ever] or read newspapers much.

 

Me disbelieving climate change and not trusting big govt, doesnt make me far right bud, i would say day to day im quite liberal, i just dont like the way governments are getting to big, the police sate is growing, and as people our liberties are being eroded. i may not be the most articlate when it comes to explaining myself, or have the time to research everything, as i dont.

But i have my views for good reason, as benkei says, i see what i see, and form opinions from that. And having a dad who used to do dirty deeds for the govt {sas} and is very anti govt, i guess it shapes my views to kind of.

 

If you dont mind me asking how old are you mate.