imi Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 So in literal terms, the party aren't racist anymore because the policy which made them racist in the eyes of the law has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well you have to admit I'm right, in terms of the party's policy. I think you just like a good political argument, personally. The thing is, so do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well you have to admit I'm right, in terms of the party's policy. By allowing non-whites to join the party doesn't necessarily mean that the party overnight is no longer racist. Their "enrolment" policy however might no longer be but the party still remains - its always a matter of people and the people are just the same. Its a facade, I pity the ones that don't see through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Think you guys need to think way back to like the 80's when people called Black people "monkey" as an insult etc. If this poster was put up then, I would call it racist. In todays age it shouldn't be, but I can see why someone would have got upset if any did not understand why it said monkey there (like I for one did not even know they have tariff's named after animals!). I know (as I'm sure most others in this thread do too) the superficial reasons behind why some are calling it racist. The problem as I see it is one of context. If I called someone a "black monkey b***ard", that could reasonably be construed as racist. The name is designed to offend or at least wind up. If I saw a monkey enclosure at a zoo, that couldn't reasonably be classed as racist: it's not a derogatory word, and it's not being used in a manner intended to offend. So clearly, context is important. In my eyes (this is subjective, not objective) the poster wasn't intended to cause offence, and the link between the guy on the poster and the word "monkey" is too tenuous to reasonably cause offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Absolutely agree. I think many people "want" to be offended by things, in a subconscious way. It's as if being offended gives them a purpose, something to fight against. It sounds wacky, and people won't admit to it, but I reckon it's true. Thats exactly what it is, it's the same sort that write in moaning about TV shows. As you say, it gives them a purpose and they feel the need to fight and do the "right" thing for the greater good. In actual fact they are generally just far too over opinionated and ill informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Aye, then you'll go down the beach and get your kids and bucket and ethnic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I've just been listening to a phone-in show on the radio about racism in schools. One lady teacher called to say that they have a 'racist' book at their school and every incident is written down. This included an incident where one child called his friend 'milky way' and the other one retorted with 'mars bar' (some weird chocolate argument). So the mars bar comment was written in the book, the milky way, not. It is crazy. If bullying is the key, there needs to be a book for ginger/fat/tall/short/glasses wearing/curly hair/braces comments. Back to the original poster, I can't actually anyone has the time to call and complain about something that's clearly not racist, not harming anyone and just plain stupid. Who are these people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I know (as I'm sure most others in this thread do too) the superficial reasons behind why some are calling it racist. The problem as I see it is one of context. If I called someone a "black monkey b***ard", that could reasonably be construed as racist. The name is designed to offend or at least wind up. If I saw a monkey enclosure at a zoo, that couldn't reasonably be classed as racist: it's not a derogatory word, and it's not being used in a manner intended to offend. So clearly, context is important. In my eyes (this is subjective, not objective) the poster wasn't intended to cause offence, and the link between the guy on the poster and the word "monkey" is too tenuous to reasonably cause offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 This included an incident where one child called his friend 'milky way' and the other one retorted with 'mars bar' (some weird chocolate argument). So the mars bar comment was written in the book, the milky way, not. What was the racist connotation with mars bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 What was the racist connotation with mars bar? I presume that to a child it's 'black'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 By allowing non-whites to join the party doesn't necessarily mean that the party overnight is no longer racist. Their "enrolment" policy however might no longer be but the party still remains - its always a matter of people and the people are just the same. Its a facade, I pity the ones that don't see through it. So I'm right then I wasn't talking about the members, but the 'party line'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 So I'm right then I wasn't talking about the members, but the 'party line'. Tenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Tenuous. Why? It's a fact. If you're going to get all leftie and shouty, at least get it right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 been a number of complaints to orange about this so far. you would have thought with todays complaints culture they would have spotted it before releasing the advert Where do you get your info? How do you know there have been actual complaints or is it just another email propogation which will no doubt result in a self fulfilling prophecy as these things tend to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I've just been listening to a phone-in show on the radio about racism in schools. One lady teacher called to say that they have a 'racist' book at their school and every incident is written down. This included an incident where one child called his friend 'milky way' and the other one retorted with 'mars bar' (some weird chocolate argument). So the mars bar comment was written in the book, the milky way, not. It is crazy. If bullying is the key, there needs to be a book for ginger/fat/tall/short/glasses wearing/curly hair/braces comments. Shouldn't parents educate the children about racism? Shouldn't teachers be teaching them the national curriculum? Wasting time writing down bully words is yet another thing poor teachers are having to do instead of getting on with their bloody jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Why? It's a fact. If you're going to get all leftie and shouty, at least get it right! By 'leftie' do you mean 'non-racist'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 By 'leftie' do you mean 'non-racist'? No, I mean left-wing, politically. You are, aren't you? It's not an insult, it's an obervation. Nothing wrong with it. I'm all for freedom in all its guises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Shouldn't parents educate the children about racism? I think thats a fundamental flaw and part of the problem. If you teach someone what racism is then they then have a tool which they can use to offend and hurt others. I was completely ignorant to racism when I was young. As far as I was concerned there was no such thing, other than in America and on the TV. Didn't exist in my upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I think thats a fundamental flaw and part of the problem. If you teach someone what racism is then they then have a tool which they can use to offend and hurt others. I was completely ignorant to racism when I was young. As far as I was concerned there was no such thing, other than in America and on the TV. Didn't exist in my upbringing. Agreed, such is the naivety of youth. In addition to not trying to teach 5 year olds about sex (hetero or homosexual), they needn't be taught about racial 'differences' which only exist in the minds of adults anyway. Parental responsibilities have gown downhill over the years as they've tried to pass the buck to the teachers. It's not the way it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 No, I mean left-wing, politically. You are, aren't you? It's not an insult, it's an obervation. Nothing wrong with it. I'm all for freedom in all its guises. Absolutely. You say it as if it's something derogatory, which I find odd. All 'leftie and shouty'..? I can't stand racism or hatred in any form, least of all political. I also think everyone should be treated equally and have a voice and rights. I'm completely against any kind of authoritarian regime, and I can’t stand bigotry or small mindeness. I know this goes against the grain a bit on here, but there you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Absolutely. You say it as if it's something derogatory, which I find odd. All 'leftie and shouty'..? OK, leftie and shouty was perhaps a little bit morose, no offense intended. It was an attempt at tongue-in-cheek commentary, which fell on deaf ears I can't stand racism or hatred in any form, least of all political. I also believe everyone should be treated equally and have a voice and rights. I'm completely against any kind of authoritarian regime, and I can’t stand bigotry or small mindeness. Here, here. It works both ways though. If you're going to take the stance of being ultra-tolerant, then you have to open your mind to other people's views and treat everything as equal. Saying you hate racists isn't exhibiting open-mindedness IMO. What if one of those racists saved your parents from drowning, for instance? I know this goes against the grain a bit on here, but there you go Well it is a male-dominated car forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 If you're going to take the stance of being ultra-tolerant, then you have to open your mind to other people's views and treat everything as equal. Saying you hate racists isn't exhibiting open-mindedness IMO. What if one of those racists saved your parents from drowning, for instance? I don't see any of my views as 'uber tolerant', I just think I'm normal - I don't judge people by the colour of their skin, or their religious beliefs. If that makes me extremist, then that's a bit sad. btw when I say I can't stand racist people, it's for their views on 'race'. Well it is a male-dominated car forum. So it should be less intelligent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I don't see any of my views as 'uber tolerant', I just think I'm normal - I don't judge people by the colour of their skin, or their religious beliefs. If that makes me extremist, then that's a bit sad. btw when I say I can't stand racist people, it's for their views on 'race'. Which again is fair. I didn't say you were an extremist though. Far from it! You do however have some strong views. So it should be less intelligent? No, but you have to understand the demographic we're dealing with here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Monkey says no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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