rant Bankers are going to receive a bonus in access of 6 billion !!

[michel lane]

This type of news really P***** me of, the government injectors millions in the banks and they plead poverty and at risk of collapes, they they inform the public that they are going to payout 6 billion in bonus !!!

[imi]

Why does it surprise you, the Govt (not just ours) hardly made any regulatory changes and just paid off the banks to sustain the economy from a spiralling crash.

 

Only a matter of time before we see any major crunch - the last one was nothing.

 

 

The Banks are private enterprises there to make money, its a very competitive industry and each of them are trying to outdo each other by taking the most risk / reward. Only a matter of time before it comes to a halt all over again.

[Snooze]

Problem is a lot of these bonuses were based on contracts and agreements signed a long time ago - before government cash injections.

 

My understanding was that they actually looked at and considered just not paying bonues in a lot of cases, and determined that they were actually legally bound to do so, and would have ended up shelling out even more money in legal costs if they tried not to.

 

This £6bn figure also includes banks that did NOT recieve tax payers money and are still posting profits (eg. Barclays investment banking). That said - I'm sure even these banks are still taking unnecessary risks based on the precedented belief that the government will bail them if it goes pear shaped.

 

I agree with imi - nothing significant has really changed in the business world in the last couple of years - a slight decline in market value but that's all - I believe will still headed for a major economic disaster at some point. With all the "quantitative easing" and the GBP dropping like a stone, we're at risk of inflation coming in seriously hard in the near future - who knows what effect that might have....

[supra_aero]

Its gonna be a very good xmas then

[stevie_b]

This type of headline is clearly designed to shock rather than inform: good old journos. However, £6bn is still a lot of money.

 

Most of that will be in investment banking as I'm sure you know. Investment banks are profit-making, mainly privately owned organisations. The banks paying the big bonuses are the profitable ones that have paid back the government bail-out money already: Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc. Don't quote me on the precise figure, but the average compensation for a Goldman Sachs employee for 2009 will be about £500,000. In contrast, an unprofitable bank like Citibank will be paying an average of £50,000. Still a tidy wage, but there's a vast difference between the profitable banks and unprofitable ones. Then there's the contractual bonuses as Snooze pointed out.

 

So, to take Goldman as an example (I have no doubt the £6bn bankers' pot is heavily skewed in their favour). Here we have an extremely successful private-sector company that has no outstanding bail-out loans to government, making sky-high profits, with staff that work monstrously long and stressful hours. They pay their employees very, very well. Where's the problem (and I think there is one)?

 

I read an interesting article in the paper the other day. Investment banking fees are very high: their clients (governments, businesses) pay massive sums to hire the services of the bankers, and it's these fees that feed the whole cycle of huge profits -> huge bonuses. This would be understandable if there was a monopoly or a duopoly, but there's not. There's half a dozen or so big players, and several more smaller players.

[supra_aero]

This type of headline is clearly designed to shock rather than inform: good old journos. However, £6bn is still a lot of money.

 

Most of that will be in investment banking as I'm sure you know. Investment banks are profit-making, mainly privately owned organisations. The banks paying the big bonuses are the profitable ones that have paid back the government bail-out money already: Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc. Don't quote me on the precise figure, but the average compensation for a Goldman Sachs employee for 2009 will be about £500,000. In contrast, an unprofitable bank like Citibank will be paying an average of £50,000. Still a tidy wage, but there's a vast difference between the profitable banks and unprofitable ones. Then there's the contractual bonuses as Snooze pointed out.

 

So, to take Goldman as an example (I have no doubt the £6bn bankers' pot is heavily skewed in their favour). Here we have an extremely successful private-sector company that has no outstanding bail-out loans to government, making sky-high profits, with staff that work monstrously long and stressful hours. They pay their employees very, very well. Where's the problem (and I think there is one)?

 

I read an interesting article in the paper the other day. Investment banking fees are very high: their clients (governments, businesses) pay massive sums to hire the services of the bankers, and it's these fees that feed the whole cycle of huge profits -> huge bonuses. This would be understandable if there was a monopoly or a duopoly, but there's not. There's half a dozen or so big players, and several more smaller players.

 

Very well said. The news papers as usual always forget to mention the investment bankers life style and sacrifices they make.

 

It amazes me people complain about bankers. Bankers are generally very very highly qualified, work their butt off to get where they are and put in massive amounts of working hours for years and years, often doing very menial tasks to get where they want to be and go through years of political bs in the work place to get where they are. When I look back at some of the menial jobs I did when I started it really is incredible what I did to get somewhere in this sector.

[benkei]

News papers are only there to wind people up and tell half truths leading to lots of misinformation. You can never trust them to get the whole story, or even the truth.

[Matt H]

Totally agree Michel. Sickening that the little people are still picking up the pieces, while the people who can be attributed a lot of the blame for the economic crash are now enjoying bonuses.

[Gaz6002]

Bankers get bonuses related to how they perform for their chosen company. If the company don't reimburse them for their efforts, they go elsewhere, to a company that does.

 

Think of them as premiership footballers, if you want to dumb it down that much

[supra_aero]

Totally agree Michel. Sickening that the little people are still picking up the pieces, while the people who can be attributed a lot of the blame for the economic crash are now enjoying bonuses.

 

Very few - and I mean VERY few bankers caused this crisis. Most have worked hard their whole life and have nothing to do with it.

 

I'd say 20-100 employees MAX per firm caused it. Why are us innocent bankers getting the blame because of a few greedy selfish idiots?!?

 

Just because we work in the same industry doesn't make us responsible.

[hogmaw]

News papers are only there to wind people up and tell half truths leading to lots of misinformation. You can never trust them to get the whole story, or even the truth.

 

This is true. Whenever I see a newspaper article about something I'm very familiar with, the errors and untruths are quite amazing.

 

So if they're reporting on something I have no idea about, how am I to know if they're telling me how it really is or not? The power of the printed word is not to be underestimated!

[Gaz6002]

This is true. Whenever I see a newspaper article about something I'm very familiar with, the errors and untruths are quite amazing.

 

So if they're reporting on something I have no idea about, how am I to know if they're telling me how it really is or not? The power of the printed word is not to be underestimated!

 

Good post.

 

It's worth noting however that the stories are usually written by a journalist, but the headlines - creating the furour to begin with - are written by editors following the 'party' line. If a writer doesn't follow said line they get let go. This attitude has created the industry's own institutionalism, stifling fair, accurate and contemporaneous reporting. Such a shame, because that's the fundamentals upon which reporting should be based.

[tbourner]

It's not really to do with how hard the job is though, it's just where the money is. That's why NHS staff are always dragged out of the woodwork for doing a hard stressful job and getting paid crap money for it - because there's no money being made in the NHS.

 

We're not forgetting that footballers get paid a bankers yearly bonus EVERY WEEK are we? Why do they deserve it? They don't, it's just that the sport has a LOT of money in it, same as most sports in fact - Jenson Button took a pay CUT when Brawn took over; to a measly £5,000,000!!!

If you work where the money is you get paid a lot, deal with it.

[Matt H]

Very few - and I mean VERY few bankers caused this crisis. Most have worked hard their whole life and have nothing to do with it.

 

I'd say 20-100 employees MAX per firm caused it. Why are us innocent bankers getting the blame because of a few greedy selfish idiots?!?

 

Just because we work in the same industry doesn't make us responsible.

 

Spoken like a true banker then!

 

Of course it's not the little people. It's the big cats in the companies. I was refering to them more specifically. A whole load of people in the industry will be getting massive bonus (not small ones). That's what's getting people annoyed.

[stevie_b]

Of course it's not the little people. It's the big cats in the companies. I was refering to them more specifically. A whole load of people in the industry will be getting massive bonus (not small ones). That's what's getting people annoyed.

 

Indeed, lots of bankers will be getting massive bonuses. What do you think should be done about it? (genuine question).

[marbleapple]

This is true. Whenever I see a newspaper article about something I'm very familiar with, the errors and untruths are quite amazing.

 

So if they're reporting on something I have no idea about, how am I to know if they're telling me how it really is or not? The power of the printed word is not to be underestimated!

 

I have posted threads on this twice on the last two years.... they always fall on deaf ears....

 

The best ones are when you know the facts, took at 6 different papers and every one tells a different story!

[supra_aero]

Indeed, lots of bankers will be getting massive bonuses. What do you think should be done about it? (genuine question).

 

Nothing. In theory its supply and demand. The industry has a lot of money in it and relatively little supply of bankers thus the high salaries - The industry at the moment doesn't have the capacity to allow everyone willing and qualified enough to be a banker to become one.

 

However over time, more wealthy entrepeneurs/ex bankers will in theory start their own banks/funds and wages should fall in time (if their wages annoy you so much - lol).

 

 

I still don't understand the hate to most bankers. I am sitting amongst red brick university graduates and Dr's (I am neither a DR nor a redbrick graduate) and am very privileged to be here - It did take me many more years to earn my seat than the guys next to me..

 

Its not like they are school leavers who left at 16, daddy got them a job and they earn 500,000GBP a year. Far far from it - though some fall into this category, the sheer competitiveness of the industry is showing that the daddy's employment regime of the past is becoming increasingly rare.

 

These guys are generally all straight A students from 16-25. Educated from first class universities and with first class degrees, whilst speaking many languages each.

 

Most of these guys are the people who got laughed at in school/college for not getting p*ssed on Sat nights at 16-17.

 

Now they earn a packet many people are jealous. WHY?!?

 

I can think of far more industries where uneducated hooligans/idiots get paid a packet for doing very little.

[Matt H]

Indeed, lots of bankers will be getting massive bonuses. What do you think should be done about it? (genuine question).

 

The banks that have had public money fired into them shouldn't be rewarding so lavishly this year, or next.

[supra_aero]

The banks that have had public money fired into them shouldn't be rewarding so lavishly this year, or next.

 

That is like saying, a guy in your firm lost the company millions 2 years ago. As a result, despite;

 

1)you working 16 hour workdays for the past 2 years - coming in on weekends and showing total commitment to the firm,

2)and having nothing to do with the fraud and

3)working in a different department,

4)and despite the firm making 10 million profit this year..

 

Matt I won't be giving you a payrise or bonus. Sorry man. There are other industries making profit - maybe you should change career. Until this blows over, we won't be giving you any chance of a bonus/pay rise as tax payers are angry at us.

 

By the way the above is assuming the firm has paid back the borrowed monies. If they haven't I agree with you. Still screwing the little man over though.

[Scooter]

That is like saying, a guy in your firm lost the company millions 2 years ago. As a result, despite;

 

1)you working 16 hour workdays for the past 2 years - coming in on weekends and showing total commitment to the firm,

2)and having nothing to do with the fraud and

3)working in a different department,

4)and despite the firm making 10 million profit this year..

 

Matt I won't be giving you a payrise or bonus. Sorry man. There are other industries making profit - maybe you should change career. Until this blows over, we won't be giving you any chance of a bonus/pay rise as tax payers are angry at us.

 

By the way the above is assuming the firm has paid back the borrowed monies. If they haven't I agree with you. Still screwing the little man over though.

 

er how about all that happening to you as an employee AND the guy who lost those millions not even working for your company!

 

Isn't that what's happening to normal businesses? RPI related pay rises ie nil as a result of bankers (+lax government control?), ok not the grass roots average workers but that sector............so why should bank employees be exempt from the current sh*t storm (regardless of how it came about)???

[Matt H]

snip

 

By the way the above is assuming the firm has paid back the borrowed monies. If they haven't I agree with you. Still screwing the little man over though.

 

I said before I'm not talking about the little man, but unfortuneatly, the little man is in bed with the big man.

[tooquicktostop]

Bring it on I say

[supra_aero]

er how about all that happening to you as an employee AND the guy who lost those millions not even working for your company!

 

Isn't that what's happening to normal businesses? RPI related pay rises ie nil as a result of bankers (+lax government control?), ok not the grass roots average workers but that sector............so why should bank employees be exempt from the current sh*t storm (regardless of how it came about)???

 

That logic doesn't make sense.

 

That is like saying;

1)oil becomes limited in supply

2)oil price goes up

2)which affects many industries adversely - causing bankruptcies

3)BP & Shell etc. make losses due to poor supply - tax payer bails them out

4)BP & Shell find new oil sources,

5)oil prices go back down and stabilise

6)BP & Shell pay government back

7)Too late for many industries who have had many file bankruptcies

8)BP and Shell make super high profits again

9)Some tax payers claims BP and Shell should have their wages for workers capped.

 

That is not how economics work. Just because one industry goes into decline and that affects lots of other industries, when it picks up again you can't say " they caused this so we should restrict their wages".

 

We are in a capitalist society, and what you are suggesting is almost communist.

[supra_aero]

Bring it on I say

 

Good man

[tooquicktostop]

Good man

 

Glass of DP at Smollensky's as usual

 

The bonus culture captures the best talent from the best Universities, you need this talent to make your company the most competitive and like all of us, money talks

 

It will not change it just wont be as "visual" this year or going forward for a while