A.E.M. in N/A.

[icemanv6]

Any ETA when you think this will be fully finished?

 

Oh and that insurance quote was the highest I found not because I've crashed or something

[David P]

Ice,

 

The remaining to do jobs are shown in green if you click the link below. I do all of the work alone and outside, so progress is now hampered by the elements, but I can assure you that I want to get it finished more than anyone. I must now go back a page or two and try and answer some other questions. Just been giving my fingers a rest.

[David P]

Chris,

 

Have already agreed to do that at Ians' expense.

[David P]

T.R.

 

I hope that my considerable efforts have gone some way to answer your questions.

 

The annoying digital AFR informs me that during light throttle the mixture is running at 15.9, at tickover 14.7 and under excelleration around 12.4.

 

I am keen to install an EGT gauge but waiting on pod delivery, I already have one gauge dangling from the glove box by it's wires.

 

I plan to fit an 'array' of stepper motor analogue gauges. Could some one please tell me if I can wire them into the ecu, or must I fit a second set of sensors.

 

I realise that I could fit an AEM multi gauge, but hate digital gauges.

 

Does anyone have an answer please for my question re. the (cat health?) sensor that now lives behid the radio?

Edited December 18, 2009 by David P (see edit history)

[Scooter]

I think the only sensors to the exhaust system are o2 ones and cat temperature, warning of failure/overheating? Presumably the cat temp one is the one you've got tucked away?

[Tricky-Ricky]

Ignition.

 

HKS earth kit.

The difference these simple earth wires make to the engine is quite amazing, starts at a touch, rock steady tickover, better throttle response and even stops quicker too, the engine just sounds and feels 'stronger', I was amazed.

 

 

This statement worries me as its a known fact that unless you have a seriously bad earthing problem to start with these will make no difference, and are generally considered snake oil.

 

As for taking offence, i would prefer not to be replied to in that manner, this is the Internet and i do make allowance's, but posts like that and the one earlier will not gain you any friends or credibility, and as mentioned may result in a ban.

 

Yes you have answered some questions but i feel that you seem to ignore the more technical ones, and to me somebody with the experience that you claim should be more than happy to answer and explain the theory and practise behind the mods, and also be prepared to discuss the text book type questions i have been asking, rather than going off at a tangent.

 

Please remember that myself and others are only asking for the technical reasoning behind your modifications, we are not trying to insult you, but you do seem to come over as feeling threatened when asked questions.

[David P]

T.R.

 

I have already both explained and apologised, and won't do it again, however, should you not have noticed, I have received a considerable volume of flack of which I have had enough, excuse me for being human.

I actually wish it was that easy to get banned, then maybe I wouldn't feel so threatened.

 

Snakeoil or not, this earthing system really does make a difference.

My knowledge of engines is mechanical, and have admitted on several occasions that my electrical skills are limited, however, to the best of my memory, not one of my electrical questions has ever been answered, maybe this is another reason I feel the balance is not in order on here.

 

Whatever, can we please move on.

 

As far as I understand, I have multiplied the electrical input considerably to the engine, so it makes perfect sense to me to upgrade the earthing system. Whether this is correct or not, it certainly does no harm adding a couple of earth wires.

[Tricky-Ricky]

T.R.

 

I have already both explained and apologised, and won't do it again, however, should you not have noticed, I have received a considerable volume of flack of which I have had enough, excuse me for being human.

 

The flack you receive is only as a result of making claims that you are not prepared to back up with concrete facts (not talking about the consumption in particular)

More the fact that you originally posted stated i will make 300bhp from my N/A! and you wonder why you get flack;)

I will say that the reason i perhaps ask more questions, is that i find your whole attitude rather arrogant, in that you come over as knowing better than anyone else.

 

I actually wish it was that easy to get banned, then maybe I wouldn't feel so threatened.

 

Nobody forces you to post your claims, however don't get me wrong, i do find it interesting, or i wouldn't bother to reply.

 

Snakeoil or not, this earthing system really does make a difference.

My knowledge of engines is mechanical, and have admitted on several occasions that my electrical skills are limited, however, to the best of my memory, not one of my electrical questions has ever been answered, maybe this is another reason I feel the balance is not in order on here.

 

I will attempt to redress the balance at the end of this post:)

 

Whatever, can we please move on.

Yes no problem, just please bare in mind my first comment.

 

As far as I understand, I have multiplied the electrical input considerably to the engine, so it makes perfect sense to me to upgrade the earthing system. Whether this is correct or not, it certainly does no harm adding a couple of earth wires.

 

Have you also added upgraded positive feeds as well? if not it may be worth the effort. as said normally you shouldn't notice any difference fitting a ring earth, but if its working for you then great

 

 

Answers to your electrical questions that i remember(no guarantee there 100% correct)

1/ you asked for info on the throttle setup, which i did supply pages from the manual, however i failed to realise they where the TT ones when i posted, i will try and dig the N/A ones from the manual.

 

2/ You asked if it was possible to add gauges directly to ECU sensor inputs/outputs, well on some it may be feasible, but i wouldn't recommend it for fear of affecting readings and feedback, so i would be inclined to stick with gauges with there own sensors.

 

3/ The exhaust sensor i presume you're referring to sounds like the cat temp sensor, which i didn't realise the N/A had, this is best kept connected and tucked away as you have done, to avoid error codes, the N/A runs two lambda sensors, i presume you are still running both of these?

[David P]

T.R.

 

Wishing only to close a couple of ever decreasing circles of ‘Chinese whispers’

For the record, again, here is my aspiration from page 2 of this thread.

 

“It is pretty average for 20 of the horses to have escaped from a 60k engine so gave myself a 'ball park' start figure of 200bhp. Should I achieve 280, then that would be around 300 on a built engine”

 

As to my claims of economy, I have provided evidence as requested, and accepted an offer to take Ian for a measured trundle.

I would like just a little time more to tidy up some ‘loose ends’, it will be easier than spending the journey explaining why they are not complete.

I would be interested to learn what more you could possibly expect?

 

Yes I am still running the stock lambada sensors.

 

Thank you for the input re. gauges, that makes sense.

 

Thank you for offering to look up the N/A throttle position sensor settings,

I have the settings for the U.K. MAF equipped engines, and that is how it is presently set.

However, the J spec MAP equipped engines I suspect are different because the sensor is now in a completely different position.

This J spec setting is the info I am having trouble to locate, which is surprising due to the amount there are over here.

 

With regard to the electrical feeds, currently I am using the ignition circuit to feed the trigger for water pump and fan relays.

I realise that this is not a good idea, but can find no other 'engine on' live circuit under the bonnet.

 

Other than the cigarette lighter, where can I pick up an ignition live feed for these items?

 

So it is an EGT sensor, is this connected to the ECU?

If so, can I simply wire in the AEM EGT to those wires?

Edited December 19, 2009 by David P (see edit history)

[Tricky-Ricky]

"This J spec setting is the info I am having trouble to locate, which is surprising due to the amount there are over here."

 

I think its in the WS Manual i have, i will photocopy the relevant pages and post them up for you

 

With regard to the electrical feeds, currently I am using the ignition circuit to feed the trigger for water pump and fan relays.

I realise that this is not a good idea, but can find no other 'engine on' live circuit under the bonnet.

 

Other than the cigarette lighter, where can I pick up an ignition live feed for these items?

 

There is no need to have an ignition sourced live, you can just use fused relays fed from the battery and triggered from whatever temp sensor you wish.

 

 

So it is an EGT sensor, is this connected to the ECU?

If so, can I simply wire in the AEM EGT to those wires?

 

No its not an EGT sensor, the engine doesn't have one as STD, its a cat over temp sensor,

EGT (exhaust Gas Temperature) sensor is usually just an aftermarket tuning/warning tool, and should in the case of the N/A be fitted near to the exhaust port on the manifold, ideally one for each cylinder, but in reality a single one best fitted to the last cylinder which is usually the hottest.

Also EGT sensors (thermocouples) cannot be piggybacked as the tiny voltages created will just screw up the readings.

[David P]

You're up late.

 

Thank's for the info.

 

With regards to the ignition feeds........ The water pump MUST be on at all times the engine is running, so must have an ignition feed. The fans can be wired direct to the stat and battery, but then run when the engine is off yet still hot, so chose to make it common with the pump.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Using a direct feed from the battery to power the relays, IE supply the required current draw, don't forget that fans can draw in excess of 40 amps on start up, and i suspect that the water pump will have a heathy current draw as well.

 

So one relay for each, with a rating of over 40 amps, (check fan's/pump) both independently fused with the correct gauge wire supplying them,(power side) then using same gauge wire, connect the earths to one of your ring earth anchor points

 

The relays can then be trigged by a low current feed from the ignition live for the pump, and the temp switch for the fan, that way you are not over stretching the ignition feed, especially if the circuits current rating is not known.

 

Wiring the fans in this way makes sure that heat soak/convection is catered for by allowing the fans to run on after the ignition is turned off, helping cool both the rad and motor.

[David P]

T.R.

 

The relays are both up to spec, I can easilly move the 1 wire trigger feed for the fans and let it run on after stop, but wanted to get the water pump trigger feed from an 'ignition on' source that was not the engine ignition circuit to avoid any poss of voltage drop.

 

Re. the J spec data, no need to photocopy and post, just the base settings, would be sufficient.

 

Cheers

[Tricky-Ricky]

You should be able to use the ignition feed to trigger the pump relay as it will not have any real impact, the current draw for the trigger feed will be negligible, the only spike will be at turn on.

 

I currently use my ECU power feed for a piggyback and AFR and data logging with no ill affects.

 

But if you are worried then i will see if i can find a diagram for the ignition switch so you can pick another live feed.

 

Will hunt out the manual for setting info later

[Tricky-Ricky]

Hope these are OK let me know if not, do you want set up for ISC and IACV?

 

Edit, reloaded them as the first batch where obscured.

 

Edited December 19, 2009 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history)

[David P]

Thank's for the ignition feed info, I will look into this further to find what these wires serve, and which fuses they utilise.

 

Re. the throttle position sensor, I notice there are 3 vac take offs and a throttle opener, this denotes that this is the spec for a MAF equipped engine.

 

These are the settings I am currently using and suspect inncorrect for this engine and trans.

 

The MAP equipped N/A engines have only one vacuum take off on the throttle body, and no throttle opener.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Thats the only N/A related diagram in this particular manual I'm afraid, although it does seem cover UK and J spec TT.

[David P]

T.R.

 

Thank you anyway.

 

By chance, I have met a member who works for Mr T.

He has offered to contact Toyota Japan and find out for me.

 

Today the timing strobe arrived, so I have ignored my dose of man flu for a while and brushed 6" of snow off the car and warmed the engine up.

I haven't adjusted it since fitting the camgears, and the exhaust is set at -1o.

The reading was 7o BTC, so have adjusted it to 10o.

However, I cannot get the engine to idle at less than 1000rpm.

This I believe is due to inncorrect throttle sensor position.

So this new setting still won't be on the button.

[David P]

The SSV4 ECU arrived today

 

Looks like this electrickery will have me scratching my bald patch

 

http://www.latentsolutions.com/SSv4.6.pdf

 

 

Edited December 22, 2009 by David P (see edit history)

[Ian C]

Crikey, it's all been going off here

 

Ian,

 

With pleasure.

 

As soon as I have completed the engine mods and installed the more efficient 5 speed flappy paddle controlled gearbox, we can go on a test trundle at your expense.

 

Although I hope you are better company in person than on here, or you might have a very long walk home.

 

Hah, well, I'm expecting a long walk home when we conk out before 350miles anyway

 

Don't take us the wrong way my man. I'm actually quite an amiable chap and I get on with practically everyone I meet. And this bunch here are being quite restrained in the face of a rather controversial project and set of claims. They do have valid questions and just hearing that we'll have to wait until the middle of next year for any hard evidence to back them up is frustrating.

 

I can't emphasise this enough - we aren't doing this just to pick on you or because it's an NA or because we are jealous or anything like that. No, it's because some of your claims, in the ten years or so we've been monkeying with these cars, are wildly outside the norm. The fuel figures, claiming power gains from plug leads, extolling the virtues of earthing kits etc.. we've seen it all before. There have been some epic ding-dongs with things like:

600bhp out of stock turbos

Rising rate FPRs

Single turbos on stock ECU and fuelling

5spd boxes that can take 600bhp

The list goes on. In every case, when proveable, it's been mythbusted. People are making very good points here, you're going defensive on it, ok fair enough that's how some respond although you're restrained about it - let's just keep it nice in here (and that goes for everyone).

 

I'd fully expect to get pounced upon by the same people if I boldly asserted anything even slightly outside the norm, which is why I back up all my stuff with reams of graphs and datalogs, or keep quiet until I can, or just throw something out there like "er, is this possible or am I getting something wrong?"

 

Anyway. Rolling road for power and a road trip for mileage, that'll sort it out definitively. And you're paying for the fuel if we don't break 400 miles

 

-Ian

[David P]

Hello Ian, wondered where you had been, we have been clearing the air a bit, just as well you weren't around too, or I might have really had my hands full

 

As I said with the list, they are mostly manufacturer claims.

 

I am not such a bad chap either, so I am glad we've got that one out of the way.

 

The job is coming along steadilly, the U.K. brakes and Du Luck lines are on. :)

 

 

 

 

But lately I have been spending my time on the inside jobs.

 

The Torsen is rebuilt and ready to fit.

I have sourced the oil coolers and a rear n/s driveshaft with ABS sensor, hub and wires.

The mounting adaptor for the fuel regulator is almost complete, and I now have a tappet shim removal tool, a timing strobe and the VV4 ECU.

 

Despite the weather and a dose of 'man flu', I have managed to adjust the ignition timing, fit the HKS Twin Power, the MSD coil and the HKS earth kit.

 

 

The next session will be to get the diff and ABS sensor in, and will fit the Fuel regulator too.

 

Next project; Install VV4.

 

Next project; upgrade and/or change trans.

 

Next project; Re-shim tappets.

 

Next project; Take off front bumper and fit oil coolers for engine and trans, change rad, change crank, idler and alternator pulleys, fit active spoiler, HID's and ballasts, laquer the bumper, fit the angel eyes, new grille and numberplate.

 

Then a session to fit the pod, install the new dash and gauges, wire in the active spoiler and spots, then tidy up the loom here and there.

 

Then i'm ready to go.

 

I will take you for that trundle when I am done, and before the dyno tune, because I may be tempted to choose power over economy.

 

I wish the Torsen was already in, because I can't even get out of the street without it

Edited December 23, 2009 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

Ready to go in

[David P]

A current project is to install an MR2 electric power steering pump and converting to a Mk3 alternator mounting set up.

 

Slight mods to Mk3 brackets and the alternator goes on.

 

Image of Mk3 set up

 

 

This leaves me to find a way to re-position the top hose, a la TT set up.

 

I have looked at the Mk4 TT alloy castings between the head, water pump and top hose, but they don't look compatible with the stud positions on the N/A head, and would require changing the waterpump back plate.

 

Maybe the Mk3 castings would work?

 

Or maybe I could leave the plumbing alone and run the belt around the top hose?

 

Someone must have done this before.

 

Does anyone know the simplest way to change this plumbing arrangement?

 

Thank you

 

David

Edited December 31, 2009 by David P (see edit history)

[David P]

Is there a way I can use these 'slip cont off' momentary press switches, as on/off switches, or is there a more suitable OEM switch that will fit these sockets?

 

[Matt _Aero top_]

a very interesting thread i shall be watching this