Jazzy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Has anyone here driven one of these? To me it looks like the best of both worlds, a manual for spirited drives and an auto for those lazy days. Are there any specific things to worry about with regard to the SMGs? In particular I'm talking about an E46 M3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 They're good, a friend has one. But he just bought a 2nd hand M3, 7 years old, 68k miles with an SMG box that had just been replaced (£2200) so be careful they wear out. Also 2001/2002 M3s had an engine recall/warranty extension. http://www.yoy.com/yoy/auto/m3_failintro.shtml So do a plate check on both items being done before you buy one of that age. Otherwise yes, SMG box seems very good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's similar tech to other semi-autos, but... I'd be finding a car with dual clutch M DKG if I was you. I've driven one and it's a fantastic gearbox. EDIT: 9000 posts. Whoopee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 EDIT: 9000 posts. Whoopee. Congrats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Has anyone here driven one of these? To me it looks like the best of both worlds, a manual for spirited drives and an auto for those lazy days. Are there any specific things to worry about with regard to the SMGs? In particular I'm talking about an E46 M3.I've test driven a couple of M3s which had the SMGII system. Can't say I liked it much. Folks who have them really seem to rate them though. Takes a couple of weeks to really learn how to get the best out of it, they reckon. Unless the car is covered by BMW warantee, you'd have to be brave to buy one though. The repair bills when SMG goes wrong are truely eye-watering. (Like £6k in some cases) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Yea, and they don't help the jerkiness of the E46 M3 engine when it's cold... the manual is a bit more manageable. When both engine and box are warmer, though, they're great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Manual for me anyday! Smg's are ok when working but too many niggles and problems for me personally. Silly things like if your bonnet switch is fecked or not closed fully the smg light comes on and think stops the car from starting up. SMG pumps fail as do the fuses/solenoids and u can't fix them locally as they need software changes etc. I'd only buy one if it was low mileage under warranty and they seem to be cheaper at higher mileages compared to equivelent manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I've had a couple and got on great with them. Contrary to belief the jerkiness can be eliminated if you take the time to learn the SMG's characteristics. I would be more worried about the diff going bang than the box. The actual box itself is exactly the same Getrag unit as the manual, the only difference being the hydraulic pack used to operate the gears and clutch. It is this unit that proved to be problematic in early production models and poorly maintained examples. I'm led to believe it was heat radiation cooking the early hydrapacks, and this was resolved by improving the insulation on later models. A number of my friends had SMG equipped vehicles and none of them had gearbox problems, however, two of them did fry diffs. They key is to get one with proven service history or get it fully inspected before purchase. IF the hydrapack was to fail on the box BMW tend to replace the whole box instead of just the pack, which has never made sense to me. There are two very divided camps when it comes to SMG, so I would recommend driving both to see what you prefer. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Yea, and they don't help the jerkiness of the E46 M3 engine when it's cold... the manual is a bit more manageable. When both engine and box are warmer, though, they're great. I had an E46 M3 SMG Convertible for a few days, I thought it was very good! Johnny does have a point about the car feeling jerky when cold but I guess its what you would expect, it is a performance car. After the engine and gearbox was warm it was nice and smooth though still had the mechanical feel if like a manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Step away from the smg, sounds like a great idea but they`re not reliable at all, same with the engines really:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I was talking to the garage owner who just replaced my engine in the supra as I am looking to move on and get a BMW and he well and truly put me off the M3 with repair bills, as Jake said he gave me a figure for the repair on a SMG equipped car of £4600. Most of the ones I have seen advertised for my price range of 10-12k have close to or over 100k on the clock, so I think it is going to be nice 330 convertible for me next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I had the choice of an SMG E46 M3 and the manual, went for the manual in the end. I read somewhere that the box counts launches, more than 15 invalidates the warranty on the box. Not an issue on an out of warranty car, but certainly played a part in my choice of the manual. The M5 SMG box is fantastic now I have got used to it. The gear changes can be adjusted in so many ways it takes a while to find a set up that feels right. In ultra auto the changes are far too slow and the car can really drop speed as you change up. As Miguel said diffs are likely to get a beating as 1/8 second gear changes at full torque are going to hammer it. I would still prefer a manual M5. The big problem with M3/M5's is they are going to have been driven hard. So you just don't know the state of the SMG clutches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonkin Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Theres an M3 CSL sat in the garage with an SMG box, shall i take it for a spin and give you my thoughts although it did take me 10 mins to work out how to start it this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I was talking to the garage owner who just replaced my engine in the supra as I am looking to move on and get a BMW and he well and truly put me off the M3 with repair bills, as Jake said he gave me a figure for the repair on a SMG equipped car of £4600. Most of the ones I have seen advertised for my price range of 10-12k have close to or over 100k on the clock, so I think it is going to be nice 330 convertible for me next. Nothing wrong with 100k miles, its just broken in! Mine has near 120k and still pulls like a steam train and has good compression. Never buy a M car just on mileage but on overall condition and these engines are good for 200k plus. I've seen 40k cars with the last 10k on track for sale and 100+k cars which have had about 80k miles on motorway use so had a realtively easy life. My current one had covered something like 80k in the first 2 and half years on motorways. U have to remember that it is a M car and not turbo'd which may suffer more from a beating. Ask any M owner and they will tell u these cars need a good spanking once in a while to keep them on their toes. They have been designed to be ragged and love every bit off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 And forgot to mention mines also a manual. Didn't want the smg incase it went wrong and especially with higher mileage cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The 10-15 launches was a bit of a scare tactic mainly aimed at daft people who thought back to back launches was ok to do. The system was designed for track work, i.e use it at the start of a race, not on every straight I was led to believe that BMW official line on warranty was it would be void if abuse was found to be the cause of failure. My dealers confirmed that the launch number was an advisory to have an inspection once the threshold was achieved. It is true that the ECU catalogued launches, but it also logged many other parameters. I'm sure the tech's over at my local dealership had a giggle at my launch count. The big problem with M3/M5's is they are going to have been driven hard. So you just don't know the state of the SMG clutches.[/Quote] This really could be applied to the manual version too. There is only one clutch in the SMG, the same clutch unit as the normal manual with a few tweaks. The SMG is purely a robotised version of the Getrag used in the manual. If anything the manual might be more open to abuse as the engine/gearbox nannying is taken away. The M5 came in Manual flavour in the US. It had its fair share of problems due to having to use the last generation M5's gearbox. It suffered badly from rear hop and was no where near as fast as the SMG variety. And yet for all their winning about wanting a manual version a greater number of SMG's were sold over the manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 This really could be applied to the manual version too. There is only one clutch in the SMG, the same clutch unit as the normal manual with a few tweaks. The SMG is purely a robotised version of the Getrag used in the manual. If anything the manual might be more open to abuse as the engine/gearbox nannying is taken away. And yet for all their winning about wanting a manual version a greater number of SMG's were sold over the manual Well TBH i have been around many m3's now and very rarely is a manual ever had problems. The gearboxes are much like the supra getrag and very robust and with the smg it is usually the associated parts that fail like the pump and not the box itself. Smg also have other niggles like if your bonnet switch is playing up then u can't drive the car and silly salmon coloured fuses that pop etc. All these headaches are avoided by going manual and especially if out of warranty. The only reason i think more smg's were sold is because it was the novelty of being different and back then when they were brand new, no one knew of the many smg problems that we know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks for all the comments, exactly the same kind of reaction i've found from searching the net. Seems rather marmite! Only reason i'm interested is that i've been offered an 03 facelift E46 cab M3 SMG with 35k miles as a direct swap for mine. Now I'm thinking I may take it simply because it should (?) be easier to sell on compared to the much smaller specialised market my single is directed at. If I do like it, assuming I do go down this route, I may keep it for a while - some more investigation seems worthwhile though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Well TBH i have been around many m3's now and very rarely is a manual ever had problems.[/Quote] But they do have problems. I'm not going to argue the fact that there is more scope for failures in an automated system than a manual one. My reference towards the clutches was aimed at the amount of abuse the clutches take themselves. This is more open to abuse on a manual than an SMG. It would be interesting to see the percentage of failures in relation to the amount sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks for all the comments, exactly the same kind of reaction i've found from searching the net. Seems rather marmite! Only reason i'm interested is that i've been offered an 03 facelift E46 cab M3 SMG with 35k miles as a direct swap for mine. Now I'm thinking I may take it simply because it should (?) be easier to sell on compared to the much smaller specialised market my single is directed at. that's all you need to know mate. Step away from the WendyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 that's all you need to know mate. Step away from the WendyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DODGYDODDS Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 i've been offered an 03 facelift E46 cab M3 SMG that's all you need to know mate. Step away from the WendyHouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n boost Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Thanks for all the comments, exactly the same kind of reaction i've found from searching the net. Seems rather marmite! Only reason i'm interested is that i've been offered an 03 facelift E46 cab M3 SMG with 35k miles as a direct swap for mine. Now I'm thinking I may take it simply because it should (?) be easier to sell on compared to the much smaller specialised market my single is directed at. If I do like it, assuming I do go down this route, I may keep it for a while - some more investigation seems worthwhile though If it has only done 35k and has a FBMWSH then seems a good deal TBH. Depends greatly on color/spec with these cars and for re-sale Sat nav, heated seats, bluetooth comms etc are very good selling points and cars without these are generally 1-2k cheaper. U can alway get a private warranty as the mileage is low and apparenty tesco do a good one and a few others out their as well. A few lads have these aftermarket warranties and have had no issues making claims as long as it is a reputable company. Only thing is...................its a CAB!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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