Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Hey guys, my first thread. Am a pround new owner of a 94 N/A but have been a fan of supras for a long time. Anyway am thinking about going NA-T and was thinking about swapping the head to a GTE until I came across this post from another forum which states that the GE head is better. For me sounded weird but I am posting his post. Any ideas guys? His post... "Besides the obvious, the turbos of course; there are few real differences between the motors themselves. Intake manifold on the GE, contrary to popular belief, flows MORE air than the GTE manifold does; AND its design is far superior if one were to want to run meth injection. Injectors are a high-imp 330cc top feed vs a low-imp w/ resistor box 550cc side feed. Stock GE rail has a larger ID than the GTE rail does and can flow fuel up to around 700hp (quoted to me by Boostlogic) Cam duration/lift/etc is slightly more aggressive on the GE motor I think and the GE head has been flowtested to flow BETTER than the GTE head. The primary problem with the GTE head being the exhaust ports are angled towards the center of their respective stock manifold. Stock mani is a 2 piece, each 3 exhaust ports point towards the exit of that manifold into the turbo. It most likely helps spool on stock twins but is a hindrance at higher flow levels. ALL JZ heads are completely interchangable physically, all the passages line up perfect... though electronics and other parts that bolt onto them (like manifolds) will be different. GE distributor has a cam position sensor in it and the GTE has a seperate cam angle sensor. GE has teeth on its exhaust cam, and cannot use aftermarket GTE camshafts for exhaust side; only on the intake side. Though now that has been remedied with the TTC cams that offer special exhaust-side gears if you're sticking with the distributor Distributor has been tested upwards of 800hp on stock plug wires, only needed a DLI of some sort (HKS and MSD 6A are pretty common) in that instance (I think it involved 28-30psi of boost, so they work rather well). OBD 1 GE motors run a Karmen Vortex airmetering ( I wont go into how that works, out of scope of this thread) and the GTEs run a Hotwire. VVTI GE motors got the weaker rods and a hotwire MAF. VVTI GTE motors retain the hotwire and the stronger rods.... do not get the GTE and GE motors confused here for VVTI. ODB1 GE and GTE have the same rods and crank. The block is the same too minus the oil supplies in the upper exhaust side and the oil drain in the upper oil pan. Though the boss is still there for the GE and can easily be drilled out (its aluminum) with a holesaw. No oil squirters for the GE. Several stock GE blocks running around with over 800hp... if someone blows one, they pick up a GTE shortblock for cheap. Compression on the OBD1 GE is 10:1 while the GTE is 8.5:1. A 2mm headgasket will net you ~8.57:1 compression level on the GE motor and using a stock GTE gasket (squishes to 1.3mm) will yield around 9.2:1. Common mods are ARP headstuds (or L19s if you're running big boost) and a thicker headgasket. It makes for a VERY stout setup, able to handle a LOT of power. There are 3 different cars that had the non-VVTI 2jz-ge here in the US: The 93-97 NA supra, the 92-97 GS300, and the 92-97 SC300. The 2nd gen GS300 got the VVTI GE, the 98-00 SC300 did, and so did the IS300. SC300 and Supra have the mid sump, GS have the front sump; and I cant remember what the IS had." Edited October 15, 2009 by atheuma small mistake... (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 A quick search will reveal a HUGE amount of information on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 A quick search will reveal a HUGE amount of information on this subject. ...and most of that information should reveal that you should forget about going NA-T, and just fit a TT engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 ...and most of that information should reveal that you should forget about going NA-T, and just fit a TT engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thought I'd go Na-T since am not after high HP, love the fluttering sound that bov and wastegate does, and is a cheaper option. This supra is daily driven will leave her stock fuel, stock injectors, low boost say 8-9psi and stock headgasket....will control everything by e-manage ultimate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thought I'd go Na-T since am not after high HP, love the fluttering sound that bov and wastegate does, and is a cheaper option. This supra is daily driven will leave her stock fuel, stock injectors, low boost say 8-9psi and stock headgasket....will control everything by e-manage ultimate though. The fluttering sound isn't the BOV or the wastegate, it's compressor stall. The BOV only makes either a whistling or rushing air sound, or a duck sound if you're clever It's your car, for the money you're likely to spend you could buy a TT engine at have 400bhp if you BPU it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thought I'd go Na-T since am not after high HP, love the fluttering sound that bov and wastegate does, and is a cheaper option. This supra is daily driven will leave her stock fuel, stock injectors, low boost say 8-9psi and stock headgasket....will control everything by e-manage ultimate though. ...and you'll have around the same power as a stock TT. Have you priced up how much the turbo kit, e-manage, and mapping is going to cost? I'd be very surprised if it's much cheaper than the pretty much plug and play TT engine swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well thats true should be the same cost but at the end of the day I end up with a T61 turbo which should give me 450-500. That said if someday I do decide to turn up some figures, all I have to do is buy some ARP headstuds and a thicker hg, and upgrade some injectors / pump. Whilst if I have a TT engine in, I will have to buy everything again, including e-manage, or AEM, go single turbo since the stock twin turbos wont get you much more above 400, and still buy everything, manifolds, fuel upgrade, injectors etc... Thats just my 2p. What do you think? Does it make sense or not? Have a feeling it doesnt make much sense :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I suppose there must be a reason most people go NA->TT->T rather than TT->NA->T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I suppose there must be a reason most people go NA->TT->T rather than TT->NA->T I never said that people should go TT->NA->T .. nor did I say that they are doing so. If you have a TT engine its always better. As for the NA->TT->T route, there are people that have done it. But there are others that choose NA->T What are the advantages/disadvantages? Is it true that the GE head has got a better airflow as stated from what I read. posted in the first post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 na-t is great in my opinion and if you can do the work yourself i found it mutch cheaper in all. but each have there own views opinions and expiriences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 thats what I thought too...thanks for backing me up Dr.Jekyll.... have you ever heard about the ge head being better flowing than the gte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 NA-T for the win.. Its good to be different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 This was seriously a thread about the differences in the head and if the other guy was right with his post or not...I think both na-t and 2jz gte make some serious power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thought I'd go Na-T since am not after high HP Whilst if I have a TT engine in, I will have to buy everything again, including e-manage, or AEM, go single turbo since the stock twin turbos wont get you much more above 400 I think these posts contradict each other. I'm not trying to pick holes in your posts, I just think you need to have a good think about what you want from the car? Do you want big power, or just the kudos of owning a turbo'd car? Both are valid reasons for those that hold them, but you should decide which (or both) you want? Good for you for looking into it before taking the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) my reasoning for the rout i took. i was young and wanted a supra , but had the sensibility to know i would total a turbo and i wanted a manual. soo i could buy a manual n/a cheap and get used to the car , the handling and balance without it being too mutch whilst lookin good. wen i turnd 20 i had ownd the car for a year and a half and decided time for more power. so on went the turbo kit and supporting mods. cost about £1500 for all the parts and fitted myself. so now the whole car has cost 4k and i have a fast turbo manual supe , that is bpu fast upto 130leptons as tested then we run out of road. now im a head gasket some injectors and a stronger gearbox away from 500+bhp when it suits me ., but in all honesty i love the way the car drives now with the high compression and low boost . dont feel the need to do more at the moment. also, what part of malta are you from?? Edited October 15, 2009 by dr_jekyll (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think these posts contradict each other. I'm not trying to pick holes in your posts, I just think you need to have a good think about what you want from the car? Do you want big power, or just the kudos of owning a turbo'd car? Both are valid reasons for those that hold them, but you should decide which (or both) you want? Good for you for looking into it before taking the plunge. What i meant stevie is, that for now im not looking for high hp since its a daily. But should I change my mind in the future, should I want more hp I still have that option... Thats what I meant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 my reasoning for the rout i took. i was young and wanted a supra , but had the sensibility to know i would total a turbo and i wanted a manual. soo i could buy a manual n/a cheap and get used to the car , the handling and balance without it being too mutch whilst lookin good. wen i turnd 20 i had ownd the car for a year and a half and decided time for more power. so on went the turbo kit and supporting mods. cost about £1500 for all the parts and fitted myself. so now the whole car has cost 4k and i have a fast turbo manual supe , that is bpu fast upto 130leptons as tested then we run out of road. now im a head gasket some injectors and a stronger gearbox away from 500+bhp when it suits me ., but in all honesty i love the way the car drives now with the high compression and low boost . dont feel the need to do more at the moment. also, what part of malta are you from?? Exactly what I meant, when you want more power ... its already there available for you with minor mods!!! I come from the sister island of Malta, that is Gozo. But the car is in Bournemouth Cant drive here without MOT!!! Will fix her up come down to the UK and drive her down to Malta...euro trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Exactly what I meant, when you want more power ... its already there available for you with minor mods!!! I come from the sister island of Malta, that is Gozo. But the car is in Bournemouth Cant drive here without MOT!!! Will fix her up come down to the UK and drive her down to Malta...euro trip off topic: i have a lot of family in gozo , thats were my fathers from that'd be one hell of a euro drive , id love to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 join along for the ride When you come visit your grandparents in Malta give me a shout if the Supra is not in for a rebuild...lol....am already thinking of getting her rebuilt from scratch, engine and body!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 will do mate mite be going over after christmas . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atheuma Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 great should be still alive and kickin by then....give me a shout!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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